Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
#1420505
04/15/13 10:17 PM
04/15/13 10:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
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Ok I run 37 total and 17 initial on my 452 headed 451 with 10.2.1 CR. Car starts with no kick back and after 12 years of running this thing with a 110 octane/pump 91 mix it is where it runs best. Enter last year and I added a FAST EZ efi with the O2 sensor and figure no more leaded race gas and I get ping now lugging it and when rolling into the throttle at anything below 2500 rpm and its all good above 3000 rpm. Running MSD Billet dizzy and MSD Digital 6 box. Been thinking about heavier springs in the dizzy but am afraid im gonna lose the throttle response. Im just frustrated with the quality of fuels these days at the pump, its all pretty crap.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1420506
04/15/13 10:28 PM
04/15/13 10:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903 Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin
super stock
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super stock
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Saskatchewan, Canada
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I hear you on the poor gas quality... That is why my new 440 Mr Six Pack Attack build is going togehter at 9.5 to 1 compression using 906 heads.
Do you have the manifold exhaust heat crossover blocked? Also are you running a 160 thermostat? Cool is always better to fight knock...
Can you at least get Non-ethanol 91 octane? I believe it will work better. here in Canada, the SHELL 91 has no ethanol, but other 91's do!
Good luck with it.
Arnie
67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...)
70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1420508
04/15/13 10:32 PM
04/15/13 10:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Its gonna matter on the cam... being that those are iron heads you MIGHT be close but the cyl pressure will tell the store... what is the cranking pressure and the cam specs... if you cleaned any sharp edges in the chambers that will help... also if you can run the coolant temps lower that will help
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1420509
04/15/13 10:36 PM
04/15/13 10:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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is there a quench pad on those pistons? if they are flat tops, put a closed chamber head on it
I ran my 12-1 engine on 91 at drag week but had the timing turned down to 32 because of that popcorn butter they sell out there
Last edited by sixpackgut; 04/15/13 10:39 PM.
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: d-150]
#1420513
04/15/13 10:51 PM
04/15/13 10:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
what is fuel air ratio.13.7 would be ideal
thats gonna cause more detonation... fuel is a coolant also
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: d-150]
#1420514
04/15/13 10:53 PM
04/15/13 10:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
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Yep I think it is 13.7-8 at cruise and 13.1 at power. Problem is that is where it says it is but unless I have another o2 sensor gauge who knows.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: d-150]
#1420516
04/15/13 11:03 PM
04/15/13 11:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
asking a question what would be ideal my dyno guy shoots for that number
On a dyno he is shooting for max power... the number comes up to what ever it is.. but it will be in the 12.6-13.0 range... dont ever go for a number when trying to find power... find the power then see what the reading is... cruise is a different matter
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1420517
04/15/13 11:31 PM
04/15/13 11:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
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I have 2 light silver springs and tried to blue springs yesterday and power was down quits a bit. Might just go with 1 light silver and 1 blue spring and hook up a retard switch that pulls 2 or 3 degrees out. http://setyourtiming.com/images/bwcharts.gif
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1420518
04/16/13 01:37 AM
04/16/13 01:37 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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Have you tried just pulling a few degrees out?
I have one 440 (10.12 comp) that would faintly rattle on a hot humid day at 37-38 total. Pulled it back to 34 and it was OK.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: Von]
#1420519
04/16/13 02:35 AM
04/16/13 02:35 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
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72Swinger
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Yeah im also thinkin about changing bushings to reduce total timing a couple degrees. I need to get a new timing light too since my last one disappeared. When I tried the 2 blue springs the thing didnt take off until about 4800 rpm.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: Mopar Guy]
#1420522
04/16/13 01:44 PM
04/16/13 01:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
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72Swinger
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I will try all the suggestions. The 160 thermostat was tried last year and the car runs cooler with a 180.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1420526
04/16/13 05:53 PM
04/16/13 05:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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Quote:
[I am using NGK xr5s and have been for years.
Arent XR5s the hottest plug NGK makes?
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: Von]
#1420527
04/16/13 06:04 PM
04/16/13 06:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
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72Swinger
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I'm not sure but I thought were recommended for 10.1 iron head big block.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: d-150]
#1420529
04/16/13 06:23 PM
04/16/13 06:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
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Trying to keep this Big Block Dart at 160 degrees for 5 laps around a road course just isnt gonna happen. So ive accepted the fact that 180-190 is where its gonna be.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: JD Dart]
#1420531
04/16/13 06:43 PM
04/16/13 06:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
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72Swinger
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Yep I will do some experimenting and follow up what works.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1420532
04/16/13 07:17 PM
04/16/13 07:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
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you can use e85 on the ezefi
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1420534
04/16/13 07:23 PM
04/16/13 07:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
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72Swinger
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What? Really? Damn so these are a hot plug then? SO a 5670-6 would be next colder then? Yeah im open to reduce the chances of head gasket failure lol!
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1420536
04/16/13 08:33 PM
04/16/13 08:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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Quote:
[ I dont know the NGk numbers but if it is a hot one you most likely will take care of all your problems with a cooler plug... and maybe a touch more fuel
NGK numbers are backwards. The lower the number the hotter. 5 being the lowest and therefore the hottest...
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1420538
04/20/13 09:49 PM
04/20/13 09:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
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72Swinger
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Update. Changed plugs to the above NGK's and removed Silver bushing for the Black bushing. Replaced one light silver spring with one light blue. Set total timing to 35 and have about 17 intial. Huge difference! I get no ping in 2nd gear matting it at any RPM and just a tad if im lugging it in 3rd and tip in hard in the 1500 rpm range. I feel a bit of relief now that I dont feel like im ruining my engine whenever I drive it.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1420540
04/21/13 12:58 AM
04/21/13 12:58 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
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72Swinger
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I may just do that Cab. Im betting that when it warms up and air density gets worse it may be fine?
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: Blusmbl]
#1420543
04/21/13 11:16 AM
04/21/13 11:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
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72Swinger
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Ok well I better get some even colder plugs to at least have just in case.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1420544
04/21/13 02:01 PM
04/21/13 02:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025 Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
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I'm running 9.7:1 with a TQ50 Erson cam, flat top KB pistons that are out .009" (oops), ported 452 heads, headers and a torker II intake. All in a 5000lb 4x4. Running a stock distributor with the slots shortened up and the heavy spring removed and, if I remember correctly, 38 degrees total timing. So far I have had zero problems with detonation. Running NGK V-power 7 plugs. I am at 5000 feet in elevation though. I took it to Vegas but had fuel delivery problems so I wasn't exactly hammering on it. It is a 4spd so the load is similar. I do, on occasion, have issues with the plugs fouling slightly at extended low RPM, but they clear up quickly. And by low RPM I mean 600 RPM lugging because I'm too lazy to downshift. Don't know if any of that helps =). I have a set of Stage VI heads I'm porting that will end up on there eventually. Tight quench with a .045" gasket and .009" out should make for a detonation resistant setup in spite of the higher compression. Guess I'll find out.
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Re: Living with pump 91 with 10.2.1 BB
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#1420545
04/21/13 02:57 PM
04/21/13 02:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
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72Swinger
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It all helps, part of the problem with my motor is its tired. At one point it sat for 2 yrs, previous to that it had probably 250 passes,and 5 yrs before that it was in a Ramcharger lol. I really want to go too a GenIII heemee but cost is an issue so I'm thinkin taking another block I have building a 511 and then later on putting good rods and pistons in the current engine and selling it.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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