stock 440 rebuild
#1403522
03/17/13 02:51 AM
03/17/13 02:51 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Spent the day helping assemble a 0.030" over 440 for a friend today. First time in almost 10 years to put a stock engine with no modifications together.
The crank was only polished, so all stock sized bearings, stock replacement cam, stock replacement pistons (I'll have to get more details on those tomorrow), stock 906 heads, cut 0.010". The heads were 89cc. Tomorrow, we will degree the cam, and see how far below the deck the pistons are.
I will have to get the name of the cam and timing set. The guy just got all the parts from the machine shop. Timing chain has no way to adjust the timing, uses a slot where the cam pin goes? I guess if it is way off, we could drill a hole 180 from the slot and then use a degree bushing?
Used the Superperformance rear main seal kit, and it went in pretty easy. The blue side seals seem a bit stiffer than the orange side seals I had in the 440 source rear main kit (comparison of silicon side seals, fwiw?)
The guy was really impressed with how easy the tapered piston ring compressor is to use.
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Re: stock 440 rebuild
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1403523
03/17/13 11:12 AM
03/17/13 11:12 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Yeah I'd degree the cam & see where its at. Eyeball the sprocket & might be nothing to keep you from relocating it (dont forget to redrill the dimple for the dot). Here's some breakin info for you. "breakin secrets" at www.mototuneusa.com (5 minute read). You didn't mention rings & I'd suggest plasma Moly file fit std tension. Set total to 36 with vac adv capped/stat out/bradd penn breakin oil. As you know the breakin is the critical part. good luck!
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: stock 440 rebuild
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1403524
03/17/13 11:23 AM
03/17/13 11:23 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,779
Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,779
Holland MI Ottawa
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Many engines back in the day were stock hi perf engines with a farmers rebuild, better cam, headers and they ran strong. Later on they got the Torker intake and Holley carb. I sure do miss those days of getting a pre 1973 440 powered car out of a field for next to nothing!
Keep old mopars alive.
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Re: stock 440 rebuild
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1403527
03/17/13 08:58 PM
03/17/13 08:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
stock replacement pistons (I'll have to get more details on those tomorrow),
what year was the engine build for ? There aren't any stock replacement pistons for the 68-70 440 piston with a CH of 2.040 , or is it .050 ?
choices are 6pk , 67 or smogger pistons ...
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Re: stock 440 rebuild
[Re: BSB67]
#1403530
03/18/13 12:00 AM
03/18/13 12:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
68 -70, 2.034", plus or minus
thanks , at first I was thinking it was .030 , I have a piston I was going to measure to confirm.
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Re: stock 440 rebuild
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1403531
03/18/13 01:59 AM
03/18/13 01:59 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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The pistons are Sealed Power 350NP, 1.990 compression height. Calculated from specs they should be 0.092" below deck, and when I measured them today, they were 0.092" below deck, so I guess my calculations were right. With the steel shim head gasket (about 5cc) the compression ratio is 8.84:1. The cam and timing set are "Engine Pro" brand. Says made in the USA? The cam degreed in at 109 intake centerline. The cam measured (at 0.006") 268/281 duration, at 0.050, it is 208/211 duration. Lift with 1.5 ratio is 0.432"/0.426" lift. Using the steel shim head gaskets is a first for me, and after putting on one side, noticed the "TOP" stamped in the gasket. Looked at the passenger side we just pit on and sure, it was upside down  I'll ask if it is an issue to have the head hasket reversed, all the oil, cooling, etc holes still lined up, but the embossed part was facing up, when the gasket "TOP" is stamped on the other side. Anyone ever ran an engine that way? I guess I'll just get another set of gaskets, they are not very expensive.
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Re: stock 440 rebuild
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1403533
03/18/13 02:27 AM
03/18/13 02:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
The pistons are Sealed Power 350NP, 1.990 compression height. Calculated from specs they should be 0.092" below deck, and when I measured them today, they were 0.092" below deck, so I guess my calculations were right. With the steel shim head gasket (about 5cc) the compression ratio is 8.84:1. The cam and timing set are "Engine Pro" brand. Says made in the USA?
The cam degreed in at 109 intake centerline.
The cam measured (at 0.006") 268/281 duration, at 0.050, it is 208/211 duration. Lift with 1.5 ratio is 0.432"/0.426" lift.
Using the steel shim head gaskets is a first for me, and after putting on one side, noticed the "TOP" stamped in the gasket. Looked at the passenger side we just pit on and sure, it was upside down
I'll ask if it is an issue to have the head hasket reversed, all the oil, cooling, etc holes still lined up, but the embossed part was facing up, when the gasket "TOP" is stamped on the other side. Anyone ever ran an engine that way?
I guess I'll just get another set of gaskets, they are not very expensive.
If you haven't run it taking the head off and flipping the gasket shouldn't be an issue unless you glued the gasket onto the block/head , then it won't come off easily and it'll be no good. DAMHIK
Does the owner mind the drop in compression those pistons are giving him ? since there is no quench i guess you could have taken a little more off the heads to bring the compression back up ... especially if he is at altitude ...
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Re: stock 440 rebuild
[Re: JohnRR]
#1403534
03/18/13 03:00 AM
03/18/13 03:00 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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The owner was going the cheap route. He plans to flip the car in a few years. I gave him several recomendations for higher compression pistons, and better cam, timing set, etc.
This is back when I posted about finding out the Sealed Power LW(light weight)2355F piston (773 grams)is only $17.79 more per set than the standard weight (872 grams) 2355F piston (Both are Forged, 2.061 compression height.) The LW2355 also uses the 1/16" ring pack compared to the 5/64" ring pack on the standard 2355F piston.
The owner supplied the steel head gaskets, the gasket kit from the machine shop was the standard Fel-Pro kit. I think he said he has had the gaskets for a long time and thinks they were made by "McCord Gasket." I did verify the oil hole to the rockers was OK, even on the upside down gasket.
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Re: stock 440 rebuild
[Re: BSB67]
#1403537
03/21/13 12:13 PM
03/21/13 12:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,163
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,163
CT
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People do not like to listen for some reason when you tell them they need/should want more compression. Its the hardest flipping thing to change once the engine is together but they always want to fly with junk pistons.
As far as the slotted timing set, its dumb as hell. I've gotten two slotted turds recently, one was a cloyes and one was a comp. Luckily both timing sets degreed the cam in well, although neither was spot on. The comp set with a comp cam put me in at 104.5, the cam card called for 106 but I was shooting for 104 anyway, so I let it fly.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: stock 440 rebuild
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1403538
03/22/13 10:22 AM
03/22/13 10:22 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I hear you. The guy asked what combination I would use, them goes and gets the cheapest kit anyway.
I told him to get the ZH143CP30 Hypereutectic pistons (2.060 compression height, 5cc valve reliefs), or the LW2355F30 (2.061 ch, 7cc vr).
For a cam, the Lunati 1020704LK (276/284 234/242 @ 0.050, 0.513"/0.533" lift), and an adjustable 3-bolt timing set for the voodoo cam. Even with the 2.06 ch pistons, with 89cc heads and the piston still down 0.022" below deck, compression would only have been 9.75:1. Cutting the block deck 0.020" would give 10.18:1 compression.
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