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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: Streetwize]
#1402102
03/14/13 08:19 AM
03/14/13 08:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
I built a 341" 3.55" crank 318 a few years back and it was a screamer with actually pretty decent torque, pretty easy to do a low buck 360 crank and with a 6" rod a 9:1 flat top 318" KB piston will wind up right at (or just slightly over) zero deck.
Offset ground 360 crank...???
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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1402103
03/14/13 09:24 AM
03/14/13 09:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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Ok I can see wanting to go with a small block but why go about it the hard way. Go to your local junk yard or Craigslist and get yourself and older 360 engine and here's a very simple low rpm combo.
.030 over app 11.0- 11.4 comp flat-tops.
nice set of H-beem rods (I used K1's)
polish or cut stock 360 crank
Balance the assembly.
Edelbrock heads. mildly ported
victor 340 intake, gasket matched
750 holly carb ( I used a 1" open spacer )
520 lift Racer Brown cam
1 7/8 Headmen headers
I used a 7 Qt. Milidon oil pan
This combo ran 10.20's in my 2550 pound Duster using 93 octain pumpgas and shifting at 6400 rpm. These heads like I said were ported but VERY mildly. I would guess its in the 450 hp range. Do yourself a favor and scrap the 318.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1402105
03/14/13 10:19 AM
03/14/13 10:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
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The 3.55 stroke was an MP 8 bolt crank and the rods were 6" aluminum MP parts as well. Rev'ed REALLY nice but to a lot of bore notching to clear those 318 bores for the fat aluminum rods. It was a 30k mile standard bore hydraulic roller block, with a solid that thing would have loved to rev to 8K with the right heads. The point is you make you a 10:1 340-350 ish 318 motor without a lot of creativity, there's still a lot of those MP 3.51 or 3.55 cranks out there with 340 mains. Speed o motive sells a 360 crank based 350 kit. But then it's about as cheap to do a 4" 390 
Last edited by Streetwize; 03/14/13 10:30 AM.
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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1402106
03/14/13 11:10 AM
03/14/13 11:10 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
LaRoy Engines
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Thinking about swapping my bigblock for a SB in my Dart, and I was wondering, how hard would it be to make between 450 and 500 horsepower with a stock stroke 318? What heads, intake and cam would be best..
292ci/273, Indy 360X heads ported by LaRoy, Edelbrock Super Victor 2815, big solid roller, 93 octane, 462 HP
Hah! Why...???
I mean, thats damn cool, i love screamers, but with all the stroker hype out there, why would someone build a 462HP 273...???
Personally, i'd love to see this thread grow into some good examples. I'm also thinking about a stock stroke 318 for my next engine, and it'd need over 400HP too. I was fantasizing about Magnums though...
That 360 Magnum magazine build-up linked in my 360/383 thread made 455HP with Edelbrock Magnum heads and the usual stuff. That'd be about 400HP with a 318 Magnum... and there was nothing tricky about that engine and no porting in the heads yet. I think 450HP would be pretty easy with the same combo plus bigger (but not stupid) cam, and some simple head porting? Hmmm...
Why? Yeah, good question. It was what was made available for the cylinder heads. Would have loved to put them on something bigger but the people building the short block chose the 273. The heads still sit on the shelf now two years later with the Chevy rockers, stud girdle, valve covers, and intake manifold, waiting for another short block. I'll switch the valves to someting bigger than the 1.94" intakes that are in there now. That was the biggest valve we felt would work with the big bore 273.
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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: 70Dart499]
#1402107
03/14/13 11:29 AM
03/14/13 11:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 644
Owego, NY
JBurch
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 644
Owego, NY
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FWIW, several years ago, in Engine Masters, a Adney Brown of Precision Crankshaft built an iron headed 318 that made 477hp at 6500rpm; that was the top of the pull, I suspect it would have kept going a little more. I have the copy of "Popular Hot Rodding" that featured the build; I'll look for it. It's written up in the January 2009 issue of "Popular Hot Rodding", the high lights: .030 over, Diamond pistons, Comp solid flat tappet, 247@.050 I & E, 1.7 Harlen Sharp intake rockers, Crane 1.6 exhaust, ported Magnum R/T heads(used super stock cast off's), Chinese air gap, 950HP Holley, 10.44 compression.
Last edited by JBurch; 03/14/13 11:48 AM.
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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: 70Dart499]
#1402108
03/14/13 11:46 AM
03/14/13 11:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
maryland
74yellowduster
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
maryland
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Quote:
Thinking about swapping my bigblock for a SB in my Dart, and I was wondering, how hard would it be to make between 450 and 500 horsepower with a stock stroke 318? What heads, intake and cam would be best..
a BB makes that without even breaking a sweat. (less $$$ too)
really.
a SB you have to build the hell out of it for the same HP. sure you can do it, but it takes a lot more work. not to mention BB heads flow way more than the smaller heads.
here... take a look at this guy's 383 lol... we are not even talking a 440 or a stroked 400 451-500 or a even a stroked 440. this is what a lil 383 can do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K6ard18yo8
a guy on here named Hutch posted that over in another thread:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=2&vc=1
is there something wrong with your current BB?
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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: 70Dart499]
#1402111
03/14/13 11:53 PM
03/14/13 11:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485
SoCal
Brian Hafliger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485
SoCal
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Quote:
Not interested in a power adder since I bracket race, but It's not a street car. I don't think I was clear, I was thinking of something with aftermarket heads, intake &pistons
4" crank, RHS heads, soild FT cam, 10.2:1, rpm intake or victor, 750-950 carb will get you 500HP no problem.
Brian
Brian Hafliger
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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#1402112
03/15/13 09:45 AM
03/15/13 09:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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figure to make 450HP out of a stock stroke 318, it's going to have to spin...
for a good, solid HP build, expect peak torque to be ~1.2x displacement....so for a 323" motor (.030 over 318) you're looking at maxing out at about 390 lb-ft of torque....
to get 450 HP, you'd need the torque peak to occur at 6100 RPM....or if your peak torque is lower RPM wise, you'll have to make sigificant torque higher in the rev range....say, you're making 90% peak torque at the HP peak, so ~350bt-lb...you'd have to spin the motor to 6750RPM to make 450HP...80% peak torque at the HP peak....so ~310 lb-ft...you'd have to wind the motor to 7600 RPM to make 450HP.....
gonna be a peaky, high stressed motor...I'd rather go more displacement and lower the peak RPM for longevity....a 408CID small block can make 450HP at 5000-5500 RPM, and 100 more ft-lbs of torque than a 318....
Last edited by patrick; 03/15/13 09:47 AM.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: patrick]
#1402113
03/15/13 09:59 PM
03/15/13 09:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
figure to make 450HP out of a stock stroke 318, it's going to have to spin...
for a good, solid HP build, expect peak torque to be ~1.2x displacement....so for a 323" motor (.030 over 318) you're looking at maxing out at about 390 lb-ft of torque....
to get 450 HP, you'd need the torque peak to occur at 6100 RPM....or if your peak torque is lower RPM wise, you'll have to make sigificant torque higher in the rev range....say, you're making 90% peak torque at the HP peak, so ~350bt-lb...you'd have to spin the motor to 6750RPM to make 450HP...80% peak torque at the HP peak....so ~310 lb-ft...you'd have to wind the motor to 7600 RPM to make 450HP.....
gonna be a peaky, high stressed motor...I'd rather go more displacement and lower the peak RPM for longevity....a 408CID small block can make 450HP at 5000-5500 RPM, and 100 more ft-lbs of torque than a 318....
Hah!!! Now i REALLY wanna hear that Indy-X headed 273 at WOT...
It really does sound like a lot, and i'm not disagreeing with you (i think the OP should just skip all extra cost and build a stock-stroke 360), but there are a good few combos out there making extreme work on the street.
I had a good friend that used to street-race his ratty 73 Maverick. He'd built a nasty little 289, much like the two above examples (big aluminum heads, big modified intake, stupid-big solid cam. It had everything but compression (he was a real cheapass and bought swap-meet pistons) and made over 400HP. Thing had 4.56's and he'd drive that thing to work every day, 30 miles down the highway, and he'd never be anywhere close to the speed limit. At one time he'd covered the same commute at around 100mph, over 5000 rpm the whole way. Summer, winter, rain, snow, camping trips, road trips... that thing went everywhere. He couldn't convince anyone on the street it wasn't bottled when it raced, and would rather pay for all that extra gas than install an overdrive or more 'daily' gears. An extreme example, and after 3 years ov this he did finally tire ov the maintenance (and inability to clear speedbumps), but the screamers can be made to work, and live well. Apple, meet orange, sure... but a fun story anyways.
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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: polyspheric]
#1402115
03/16/13 01:59 AM
03/16/13 01:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,420
FastOne
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,420
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Darn Dart 1995, ET 10.86 @ 114 mph, 273ci, 340 X heads, notched bores, TRW 11.5.1 comp, 509 hydraulic, 4500 stall, 5.50 gears, Cyclone headers, car 3,000lbs, 345 HP
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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: FastOne]
#1402116
03/16/13 04:55 PM
03/16/13 04:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Just so I'm clear - you want big horsepower and you knwo it takes good parts as far as everything else but the block - but a 340 block is too expensive? You're a bracket racer - it should be pretty clear that the more crazy you get with an engine the harder it is to be consistent - which is really what bracket racing is about. So - if you need that power, build the biggest small block you can and don;t work it as hard. That would be my advice. An LA 360 based 408.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: mopar65]
#1402118
03/16/13 08:17 PM
03/16/13 08:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 207
People's Republic of Mass.
Belvedere2
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 207
People's Republic of Mass.
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Quote:
Quote:
Just so I'm clear - you want big horsepower and you knwo it takes good parts as far as everything else but the block - but a 340 block is too expensive? You're a bracket racer - it should be pretty clear that the more crazy you get with an engine the harder it is to be consistent - which is really what bracket racing is about. So - if you need that power, build the biggest small block you can and don;t work it as hard. That would be my advice. An LA 360 based 408.
there is a very nice looking 422 stroker small block in the race parts for sale section that would be right up hi alley.looks like all it needs is a set of hearers and you would be ready to go. i do not know the member that is selling it so this is not a sales pitch for him. but if i had the money i would buy it. mopar65 
Yep been looking at that for months. If I didn't already have my 380 that bad boy would be mine. Gotta love torque! 
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Re: 450 horsepower 318??
[Re: JBurch]
#1402119
09/19/14 02:38 PM
09/19/14 02:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,712
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,712
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
FWIW, several years ago, in Engine Masters, a Adney Brown of Precision Crankshaft built an iron headed 318 that made 477hp at 6500rpm; that was the top of the pull, I suspect it would have kept going a little more. I have the copy of "Popular Hot Rodding" that featured the build; I'll look for it.
It's written up in the January 2009 issue of "Popular Hot Rodding", the high lights: .030 over, Diamond pistons, Comp solid flat tappet, [Email]247@.050[/Email] I & E, 1.7 Harlen Sharp intake rockers, Crane 1.6 exhaust, ported Magnum R/T heads(used super stock cast off's), Chinese air gap, 950HP Holley, 10.44 compression.
I ended up buying that motor and had it in my car at Norwalk. It currently has a much smaller hydraulic cam in it( 231@50) instead of the 247 solid from the Dyno sessions.
Car weighs 3415 and went 113.37 mph@ 11.79 with it, basically little tuning on it( know the carb is currently wrong). Shifted it at 6200, trapped at 5900. Would like a 4.56 gear vice the 4.10 I have in it, but it's mainly a street car.
Car has power steering, factory water pump and clutch fan. Based on the car weight and mph, it's already been a tenth quicker than what Wallace calculator figured. I put in 460 ponies based on the accessories it's running and came up with an 11.90.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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