I've never had an issue w/ heat on either type of starter. That's more of a GM thing. One thing w/ the Mini starter is you might have to adjust/modify your harmness or the starter. Some come with this funky piece where the harness hooks up, you have to remove that for your factory harness to bolt up.

One possible con? I've heard that headers can warp exhaust valves, because they don't retain heat on cool down evenly - ie, they cool down to fast and the engine is still hot. Old wive's tale? I have a set of Hi-Po replica manifolds that I bought from Year One years ago. They were around $400 and look to be high quality, even came with the heat riser kit and mounting hardware. I've read that the Hi-Po stuff is supposed to flow almost as good as headers.

chump. I think that if you ran a car wide open for a while, with shorty headers and shut it off in below 40* temps it might warp a valve. I have personally raced in 40* weather open headers round after round w/ no issues. If you bought the mani's use them. They don't flow like headers but they work well for what they were designed for. If you have a driver with a mild set-up use them.

1) yes headers flow better than HP manifolds and therefore (with everything else being equal) they will develop more power. How much more? It depends.

2) Yes there are downsides: leaks, ground clearance, starter clearance, heat, sound and the main one for me: looks.

3) Exhaust needs to be considered as a complete system: it's useless to put headers on a factory 2 1/4" compression bent system with restrictive mufflers. I'll bet good money that my HP/2.5" TTI/dynomax exhaust system flows better than a set of cheapy headers tied into the stock exhaust.

...at the end of the day there are two schools of though regarding the whole "manifolds vs. headers" thing;

- on one side you have those that will always recommend headers because they are a cheap way to make more power

- and on the other side, those of us that prefer manifolds will point out that you can reach your desired HP goals for any street car using the HP manifolds.

...so at the end of the day it is a matter of preference.


Dave

Can someone please reccomend a mini-starter that could be purchased at a local Auto Parts store? I've heard one from a mid-90s Dakota?

I took the manifolds off and noticed a prior crack repair has not only opened up but has grown!! I'm done with the manifolds and am kind of EXCITED about getting headers now!!

Thanks!!

The con I found with TTI headers on my 440 is it really tough to get to the spark plugs, real tough. Are all headers like that on 440s.Plus they are in the way for the slap stick shifter linkage. Not a huge deal but has to be deal with.

Are all headers like that on 440s?

No issues with the shifter linkage...

Plugs???

You can't even SEE 6&8...(Hooker)...

Looks like we posted about the same time "DaytonaTurbo". I might have got you buy a few seconds. Ron

Dammit got tree'd by Ron!

I went the opposite!!!
headers to manifolds!!!

Headers to me were a total pain and i had nice old hooker set, they fit as good as any but were a total PAIN to remove/seal up. Water leaks, and a engine i couldn't tune just right.
But let me first tell you my use for my car, it's a cruiser, and like you the occasional
The headers just gave me grief, high under-hood temps, leaks, burnt wires, and a nice ping i could not for the life of me tune out, even with 91 oct gas and 31*deg total mech timing on a hot summer night PING...
i did a lot of reading and decided that i'll try a set of hp mani's. bought them, spent 4 hours removing the headers, pulling out engine mounts to lift the engine, and then spent 30 seconds putting in the mani's. it was so easy i did it twice just for fun!!!
the first start up was night and day. my 440 just loves the mani's, i think they do need the back-pressure to stop quench and ping. and it worked!!! what a huge difference, to me the motor made more power than the mani's, because down low i noticed a big improvement, and this is where the car lives. Maybe a tiny power loss at the top, but overall i would NEVER go back to headers EVER!!!
it's been 6yrs, no leaks, no problems at all.
now the best part, my ping is GONE!!! i'm running 36* total mech and 52*ish total with vac...it's a totally different car, drives like fuel injected, hauls bum, no leaks...
headers are good if you just are concerned with top end, i just cruise, stomp it once in a while, and for me the manifolds are the answer.

Just some real world answers on HP difference. Last summer on a dyno with no changes but headers and manifolds. Around 8-9% gain for headers 501hp to 470hp I think it was might of been low 470s would need to check sheets. This was 400 stroker that has manifolds on now and runs great. Had over 500hp w/manifolds for torque so it is still a fun street occasional track car.

I don't quite get the claim that manifolds have more torque; according to my own (somewhat limited) experience, and the dyno testing I have seen, headers increase power as much or more at low and mid-range rpm's than they do up top.

I've run cheap headers in the past that were such a PITA that I swore off headers for a long time, but just recently put TTI headers and X-pipe exhaust on the mild 360 in my 67 Barracuda, and the power difference was amazing, high rpm, low rpm, everywhere. They fit, don't rattle, don't leak, and they don't drag on speed bumps. All I can say is I have no intention of ever going back to manifolds on that car. Your experience may differ. . . .

Buy the BEST quality/most modern headers you can afford, you want THICK flanges. Dont get bigger headers than your application needs (those 2" CPPA headers might look neat, but your stock engine doesn't need them, and you dont need the crappy ground clearance). Make sure your starter (mini-starter obviously) is new or in very good cond... cause its not gonna be fun to change (though with some brands ov header you may get lucky). Different brands have different issues... do your research (ie: my experience: Hooker Comps work/flow very well... NICE power... but they loathe spark plug wires, have thin flanges, thin tubes (good power, but more noise) and a few other issues.).

On the lamest 440 built they make enough extra power/torque to matter, but with headers you definitely get what you pay for, and advances have definitely been made in the last 20 years.

Thanks for the advice Pale Roader! Oh, and by the way, you have the BEST avatar on this site!

If you are worried about the flanges...buy a set of 1/2" thick stainless flanges like I did ..I have 8 pairs ready to go on my exhaust system ($18 pair) ...Put them throughout your exhaust system wherever there is a joint, use a RemFlex Gasket. Thats what I was told here (The gaskets anyways). I havent had the time to put on my ceramic coated Hedmans (78030) nor the cashflow, something always seems to get in my way of doing that modification.

Keep your HP manifolds. I plan on having a provisionary extension made for the HPs...JUST in case I wanna go back to them one day.

Oh yeah...adding exhaust dumps too when I get my pipes installed...Can't wait to raise the dead and deafen the kids at the bus stops