Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: Sb Valiant]
#1382775
02/07/13 01:14 AM
02/07/13 01:14 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Not a small block but my 470 has an 8-quart pan and I usually run/race w/6-quarts...........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1382777
02/07/13 08:06 AM
02/07/13 08:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,065 Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,065
Niles , Ohio
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I run a HV HP pump on my 440.It has a Moroso 8 qt.I run 7 quts.Its street/strip and never has oil starvation problem.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: toddd]
#1382778
02/07/13 08:19 AM
02/07/13 08:19 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 646 VA.
mosweethemi
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 646
VA.
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: mosweethemi]
#1382779
02/07/13 09:25 AM
02/07/13 09:25 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
Hello A 7 qt pan with a HV pump will be OK!We have ran them for years on our drag cars and street cars!(high PRESSURE) is not good!!!! for your bearings. HV IS THE BEST! WE ALWAYS USED MELLING PUMPS (M63HV)MANCINI RACING HAS THEM FOR $70.95 high pressure will push the oil off of your bearings, high pressure is good with a water hose when you or washing the dirt off of your car or truck!!
Which is why you don't need a high volume pump.
Kevin
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: Twostick]
#1382780
02/07/13 09:44 AM
02/07/13 09:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,932 Finalnd, Perkele
jyrki
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,932
Finalnd, Perkele
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To the original question; an oil pump pumps oil through clearances in certain places and creates oil pressure. A high volume pump does not pump a single milliliter more oil with a certain oil pressure than a regular pump. If it pumps more oil, the pressure will raise. What the hi volume oil pump does, is retain oil pressure better with bigger clearances or if problems occure. As long as there is oil in the pan for it to suck. I have always used hi vol pumps, the current engine has the limiter at 7800, makes over 1500 hp and has 7qt of oil in the pan.
Plynouth VIP '67 TT IC EFI
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: toddd]
#1382781
02/07/13 10:08 AM
02/07/13 10:08 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I'd get rid of it, you want pressure not volume.
Pressure is the by product of flow vs restriction... you want flow.... to the OP.. if you have a 7qt pan(pan itself), thats a 8qt system... it will work fine... I had to run a high volume pump but it has a standard pressure spring in it... my SB has multiple leak points(mains are .0028, rods are .0025, roller lifters with EDM holes and PR oiling) so with the standard pump it was a bit lower than I liked for a street/strip car
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: Sb Valiant]
#1382786
02/07/13 06:57 PM
02/07/13 06:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,142 Central New York
slippery440
Crybaby440
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Crybaby440
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,142
Central New York
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Put sealant on the threads of the intake bolts will stop the oil seapage.
Last edited by slippery440; 02/07/13 07:04 PM.
If the MODS did their job I would not be hitting the notify MOD button. LOL
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: Sb Valiant]
#1382787
02/07/13 06:58 PM
02/07/13 06:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Thanks guys The oil pump is good but would like to change the spring to get alittle bit better oil pressure. The oil pan is a 7qt home made pan and yes with the filter it makes it a 8qt system. The pan needs some work. I'll make sure to get a good oil filter. The heat cross over on the w-2 heads is a opening in the middle on the intake port side that's about 1 1/2- 2" deep that doesn't go anywhere. We had a decent amount of oil laying up in them. Could be the falt of the intake gaskets and being that they were some home made deals from who knows when. Who ever made them must not of made them right. I think the brad penn oil isn't bad compared to alot of other stuff. Last time I knew they were selling it for 6 bucks a quart.
Sounds like the bottom side of the intake might be sucking oil in... check the angle closely with feeler gauges at all 4 corners, top and bottom to make sure the angle is right... and make sure you close those stupid cross over ports off
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: jyrki]
#1382788
02/07/13 10:43 PM
02/07/13 10:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,311
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
A high volume pump does not pump a single milliliter more oil with a certain oil pressure than a regular pump.
There it is. Technically, it is pumping more oil, just not to the bearings, just through the bypass, wasting more hp than the standard pump up against the relief.
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: emarine01]
#1382790
02/08/13 09:02 AM
02/08/13 09:02 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
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Prospect, PA
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Quote:
HV oil pumps tend to make better pressure @ low RPM with hot oil, the rotor of a HV pump is larger,
Correct
Quote:
Hi volume pumps also remove heat faster than a standard pump at the cost of consuming more HP to drive them. On a tight new engine a standard pump works fine, On a loose engine or a larger engine the Hi volume works best, providing the pan has the capasity for the flow.
Incorrect, except maybe at lower rpm and pressure when it does not matter. Once your into the relief spring, there is no more oil passing along key engine components. And in fact, the Hv pump is actually putting more heat into the oil when it is beating it around in a circle.
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1382792
02/08/13 02:12 PM
02/08/13 02:12 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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An HV pump will pump more oil and, all other things being equal, will put out more pressure.
However, if the oil pressure relief valve opens at, say, 60 psi, and your standard pump will give you 60 psi at cruising speed (or higher), then switching to an HV pump won't give you any more peak pressure; all it will do is funnel extra oil back into the pan. It will give you more pressure at hot idle if that's important, and if a stock pump only give you 10 psi at hot idle and the HV gives you 30, you might want to switch.
On the other hand, if the standard pump only gives you 40-50 psi max (with a 60 psi relief valve), then switching to an HV pump will increase oil pressure at higher speeds, not just at idle or low speed. And in a motor with large bearing clearances, this may very well be the case.
Whether the HV pump will actually increase max pressure depends on the relief valve, bearing clearances, etc. And whether you need or should want more pressure depends . . . .
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: Sb Valiant]
#1382794
02/08/13 06:11 PM
02/08/13 06:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
The hv pump we have only put's out a maxium of 55 psi cold and 25-30 psi hot . That's the most it's ever put out no matter what oil weight we try. So I guess it's either change relief valve or spring and get the correct pressure or get a standard oil pump and opening it up like some people do. The oil pan we have is really not worth the effort and time to fix so I am either going to get a 8qt moroso or the milodon 9qt ss pan. So what ever oil pump would be better to use in either application is what I need to use. Anyone reccomend getting a stock oil volume oil pump and open it up and get the right spring for oil pressure? Any power to be had or just a waste of time?
With the pump you have now it looks like the by pass spring is a bit on the weak side... most open at about 65-70 psi.... I always blend in the bores in the pump just to help with the flow(make sure you clean it out real good and that means taking the by pass out to make sure its all clean)... a standard pump will take a LITTLE less power to spin... would you see a difference.. nope
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: BSB67]
#1382795
02/08/13 06:42 PM
02/08/13 06:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695 nc
emarine01
master
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master
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Posts: 3,695
nc
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Quote:
Quote:
HV oil pumps tend to make better pressure @ low RPM with hot oil, the rotor of a HV pump is larger,
Correct
Quote:
Hi volume pumps also remove heat faster than a standard pump at the cost of consuming more HP to drive them. On a tight new engine a standard pump works fine, On a loose engine or a larger engine the Hi volume works best, providing the pan has the capasity for the flow.
Incorrect, except maybe at lower rpm and pressure when it does not matter. Once your into the relief spring, there is no more oil passing along key engine components. And in fact, the Hv pump is actually putting more heat into the oil when it is beating it around in a circle.
There is more to pressure VS volume than meets the eye, as far as at lower rpm and not mattering...the high volume pump has the best performance advantage at low RPM after a high load pass wile idling back to the pits it will remove heat at a much faster rate... thats where it really counts, reducing heat fatigue and heat stress, two important things that lead to part failure and KABOOM
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: jyrki]
#1382796
02/08/13 07:08 PM
02/08/13 07:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 369 California, USA!!!
WheelsUp73
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 369
California, USA!!!
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Quote:
To the original question; an oil pump pumps oil through clearances in certain places and creates oil pressure. A high volume pump does not pump a single milliliter more oil with a certain oil pressure than a regular pump. If it pumps more oil, the pressure will raise.
Not 100 percent correct. The larger gears in the HV pump can move 25 percent more oil at the same pressure. Below is a descrpition of the Mopar perf HV pump from Jegs.If your oil pressure is only getting to 55 lbs then your bearing clearences/lifter bore clearences are out to lunch and a pump pressure spring won't help. My Dart Idles 60 hot and has 80 PSI at full boogie with straight 40 wt Redline.
Oil pump discription "These high-performance, high-output oil pump assemblies will help protect the life of your muscle car engine, providing a 25% increase in oil volume over stock pumps. Pumps come fully assembled for easy installation."
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1382797
02/08/13 07:20 PM
02/08/13 07:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,311
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
Incorrect, except maybe at lower rpm and pressure when it does not matter. Once your into the relief spring, there is no more oil passing along key engine components. And in fact, the Hv pump is actually putting more heat into the oil when it is beating it around in a circle.
Yes IF your in by pass mode BUT if the engine has larger clearances and other means of oil loss(as in my case with edm holes and PR oiling) the pump IS moving more oil.... not everyone can get away with the standard volume pump and in the case of removing temp... it does IF its NOT in by pass mode
Exactly! It applies during bypass
The EDM and PR oiling does take a bunch more oil volume to maintain pressure
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Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?
[Re: emarine01]
#1382798
02/08/13 07:47 PM
02/08/13 07:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
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Prospect, PA
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Quote:
the high volume pump has the best performance advantage at low RPM after a high load pass wile idling back to the pits it will remove heat at a much faster rate...
Certainly. I stand corrected on my "...when it does not matter." statement.
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