Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/07/13 02:14 PM

high pressure will push the oil off of your bearings,

Where do you guys come up with this BS.... whats gonna
push the oil off the bearings... more oil

Posted By: Crizila

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/07/13 03:00 PM

Quote:

I was looking at our oil pump and seen that it was a hv pump. I don't know if the 7 qt pan is enough for such a pump? We did have alittle to much oil get up top into the heat cross over in the w-2 heads though.

7qt pan will work fine with a HV pump. I run 7 qts in an 8qt pan with no problems. FYI, Most of us run more pressure than most oil manufacturers recommend ( 10 psi for every 1000 rpm, starting at around 10 - 15 psi at idle ). I'm about 20 psi over that accross the board. Probably cost me some HP, but it's nice to have a safety margin in case you have a valve train failure, etc. Also why I always run a HV pump.

Posted By: slippery440

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/07/13 03:39 PM

Quote:

I was looking at our oil pump and seen that it was a hv pump. I don't know if the 7 qt pan is enough for such a pump? We did have alittle to much oil get up top into the heat cross over in the w-2 heads though.

You lost me??? Too much oil in the W2s and oil getting into the heat cross over???

Here you seam to need things broke down so.
Oil is always good.Thats a given!! More oil is good. No oil in the pan is bad. Too much oil is bad and may cost HP.Oil pressure is good. To much oil pressure is bad and may cost HP. Alot of oil flowing threw the motor is good. Too much oil in certain places such as the heads is bad and wasted. Now the type of oil. Some people say light weight and then others say heavy weight. A topic that will be beat again and again. Anouther topic. Crude oil vrs synthetic oil will be beat on for ever. Then the differant brands of oil. My god there are people that will buy 10 dollars a quart oil just because its made by Brad Penn??Oil filter is good. Use a good after market filter that will clean the oil and allow flow. A oil filter will not save a motor that has no oil in it or oil pressure.Plus it will stop big chucks of debree from bearing. But most times way to late.
LETS SUM UP. Oil no mater what brand is good to use in a motor. Commoun sense tells you if you have a six or seven quart pan you put that amount in and 1 more for the oil filter. If you have a oil pump that was on anouther motor and that said motor had issues do not use that pump.Buy a pump that will give you oil pressure and pushs oil threw the motor. Simple

Posted By: Sb Valiant

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/07/13 10:00 PM

Thanks guys

The oil pump is good but would like to change the spring to get alittle bit better oil pressure. The oil pan is a 7qt home made pan and yes with the filter it makes it a 8qt system. The pan needs some work. I'll make sure to get a good oil filter. The heat cross over on the w-2 heads is a opening in the middle on the intake port side that's about 1 1/2- 2" deep that doesn't go anywhere. We had a decent amount of oil laying up in them. Could be the falt of the intake gaskets and being that they were some home made deals from who knows when. Who ever made them must not of made them right. I think the brad penn oil isn't bad compared to alot of other stuff. Last time I knew they were selling it for 6 bucks a quart.

Posted By: slippery440

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/07/13 10:57 PM

Put sealant on the threads of the intake bolts will stop the oil seapage.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/07/13 10:58 PM

Quote:

Thanks guys The oil pump is good but would like to change the spring to get alittle bit better oil pressure. The oil pan is a 7qt home made pan and yes with the filter it makes it a 8qt system. The pan needs some work. I'll make sure to get a good oil filter. The heat cross over on the w-2 heads is a opening in the middle on the intake port side that's about 1 1/2- 2" deep that doesn't go anywhere. We had a decent amount of oil laying up in them. Could be the falt of the intake gaskets and being that they were some home made deals from who knows when. Who ever made them must not of made them right. I think the brad penn oil isn't bad compared to alot of other stuff. Last time I knew they were selling it for 6 bucks a quart.

Sounds like the bottom side of the intake might be
sucking oil in... check the angle closely with feeler
gauges at all 4 corners, top and bottom to make sure
the angle is right... and make sure you close those
stupid cross over ports off

Posted By: BSB67

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/08/13 02:43 AM

Quote:

A high volume pump does not pump a single milliliter more oil with a certain oil pressure than a regular pump.

There it is. Technically, it is pumping more oil, just not to the bearings, just through the bypass, wasting more hp than the standard pump up against the relief.

Posted By: emarine01

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/08/13 04:31 AM

HV oil pumps tend to make better pressure @ low RPM with hot oil, the rotor of a HV pump is larger, moving more oil per revolution with the same relief spring pressure setting as a standard pump. Hi volume pumps also remove heat faster than a standard pump at the cost of consuming more HP to drive them. On a tight new engine a standard pump works fine, On a loose engine or a larger engine the Hi volume works best, providing the pan has the capasity for the flow.

Posted By: BSB67

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/08/13 01:02 PM

Quote:

HV oil pumps tend to make better pressure @ low RPM with hot oil, the rotor of a HV pump is larger,

Correct

Quote:

Hi volume pumps also remove heat faster than a standard pump at the cost of consuming more HP to drive them. On a tight new engine a standard pump works fine, On a loose engine or a larger engine the Hi volume works best, providing the pan has the capasity for the flow.

Incorrect, except maybe at lower rpm and pressure when it does not matter. Once your into the relief spring, there is no more oil passing along key engine components. And in fact, the Hv pump is actually putting more heat into the oil when it is beating it around in a circle.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/08/13 02:57 PM

Yes IF your in by pass mode BUT if the engine has
larger clearances and other means of oil loss(as in
my case with edm holes and PR oiling) the pump IS moving
more oil.... not everyone can get away with the standard
volume pump and in the case of removing temp... it
does IF its NOT in by pass mode

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/08/13 06:12 PM

An HV pump will pump more oil and, all other things being equal, will put out more pressure.

However, if the oil pressure relief valve opens at, say, 60 psi, and your standard pump will give you 60 psi at cruising speed (or higher), then switching to an HV pump won't give you any more peak pressure; all it will do is funnel extra oil back into the pan. It will give you more pressure at hot idle if that's important, and if a stock pump only give you 10 psi at hot idle and the HV gives you 30, you might want to switch.

On the other hand, if the standard pump only gives you 40-50 psi max (with a 60 psi relief valve), then switching to an HV pump will increase oil pressure at higher speeds, not just at idle or low speed. And in a motor with large bearing clearances, this may very well be the case.

Whether the HV pump will actually increase max pressure depends on the relief valve, bearing clearances, etc. And whether you need or should want more pressure depends . . . .

Posted By: Sb Valiant

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/08/13 09:43 PM

The hv pump we have only put's out a maxium of 55 psi cold and 25-30 psi hot . That's the most it's ever put out no matter what oil weight we try. So I guess it's either change relief valve or spring and get the correct pressure or get a standard oil pump and opening it up like some people do. The oil pan we have is really not worth the effort and time to fix so I am either going to get a 8qt moroso or the milodon 9qt ss pan. So what ever oil pump would be better to use in either application is what I need to use. Anyone reccomend getting a stock oil volume oil pump and open it up and get the right spring for oil pressure? Any power to be had or just a waste of time?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/08/13 10:11 PM

Quote:

The hv pump we have only put's out a maxium of 55 psi cold and 25-30 psi hot . That's the most it's ever put out no matter what oil weight we try. So I guess it's either change relief valve or spring and get the correct pressure or get a standard oil pump and opening it up like some people do. The oil pan we have is really not worth the effort and time to fix so I am either going to get a 8qt moroso or the milodon 9qt ss pan. So what ever oil pump would be better to use in either application is what I need to use. Anyone reccomend getting a stock oil volume oil pump and open it up and get the right spring for oil pressure? Any power to be had or just a waste of time?

With the pump you have now it looks like the by pass
spring is a bit on the weak side... most open at about
65-70 psi.... I always blend in the bores in the pump
just to help with the flow(make sure you clean it out
real good and that means taking the by pass out to
make sure its all clean)... a standard pump will take
a LITTLE less power to spin... would you see a difference..
nope

Posted By: emarine01

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/08/13 10:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

HV oil pumps tend to make better pressure @ low RPM with hot oil, the rotor of a HV pump is larger,

Correct

Quote:

Hi volume pumps also remove heat faster than a standard pump at the cost of consuming more HP to drive them. On a tight new engine a standard pump works fine, On a loose engine or a larger engine the Hi volume works best, providing the pan has the capasity for the flow.

Incorrect, except maybe at lower rpm and pressure when it does not matter. Once your into the relief spring, there is no more oil passing along key engine components. And in fact, the Hv pump is actually putting more heat into the oil when it is beating it around in a circle.

There is more to pressure VS volume than meets the eye, as far as at lower rpm and not mattering...the high volume pump has the best performance advantage at low RPM after a high load pass wile idling back to the pits it will remove heat at a much faster rate... thats where it really counts, reducing heat fatigue and heat stress, two important things that lead to part failure and KABOOM

Posted By: WheelsUp73

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/08/13 11:08 PM

Quote:

To the original question; an oil pump pumps oil through clearances in certain places and creates oil pressure. A high volume pump does not pump a single milliliter more oil with a certain oil pressure than a regular pump. If it pumps more oil, the pressure will raise.

Not 100 percent correct. The larger gears in the HV pump can move 25 percent more oil at the same pressure. Below is a descrpition of the Mopar perf HV pump from Jegs.If your oil pressure is only getting to 55 lbs then your bearing clearences/lifter bore clearences are out to lunch and a pump pressure spring won't help. My Dart Idles 60 hot and has 80 PSI at full boogie with straight 40 wt Redline.

Oil pump discription

"These high-performance, high-output oil pump assemblies will help protect the life of your muscle car engine, providing a 25% increase in oil volume over stock pumps. Pumps come fully assembled for easy installation."

Posted By: BSB67

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/08/13 11:20 PM

Quote:

Incorrect, except maybe at lower rpm and pressure when it does not matter. Once your into the relief spring, there is no more oil passing along key engine components. And in fact, the Hv pump is actually putting more heat into the oil when it is beating it around in a circle.

Exactly! It applies during bypass

The EDM and PR oiling does take a bunch more oil volume to maintain pressure

Posted By: BSB67

Re: Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump? - 02/08/13 11:47 PM

Quote:

the high volume pump has the best performance advantage at low RPM after a high load pass wile idling back to the pits it will remove heat at a much faster rate...

Certainly. I stand corrected on my "...when it does not matter." statement.

Is a 7 qt oil pan enough for a hv oil pump?