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Ladder Bar installation Help Pinion angle #1382351
02/06/13 09:01 AM
02/06/13 09:01 AM
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west palm beach, florida
modelmakerinc Offline OP
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Hey Guys, Planning the install of a ladder bar setup in my 67 Coronet Sedan. I am using this S&W instruction as a guide (http://www.swracecars.com/Files/pdf/ladder_bar.pdf)

I have the front crossmember installed and am looking for answers to a couple questions

1) I read in different places that the lower bar should be close to parallell to the ground, but that doesnt coinside with setting the car at ride height. If i make the lower bar parrallel, the rear of the car sits lower than the front even with 30" tires.
The shape of housing brackets are dictating the distance from the bottom bar to axle centerline.

Taller tires? close to parrallell? what is the right answer

2) the pinion angle is 2-4* down from What? the transmission where do you get the angle of the transmission as ther is no surface parrallell to it, do I use a yolk and perpendicular to it? or is the tranny mount pad parallell?

Thanks for the help in advance henry


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Re: Ladder Bar installation Help Pinion angle [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382352
02/06/13 09:36 AM
02/06/13 09:36 AM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Take your reference reading off of the trans tailshaft...
you might want to take the seal off OR put a yoke
in it... the bottom bar should be parallel to the
ground(I try to set them at 2* nose down on the
bottom hole).. you may have your front mount bar in
too high(thats the case most times guys try to mount
ladder bars)

Re: Ladder Bar installation Help Pinion angle [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1382353
02/06/13 10:18 AM
02/06/13 10:18 AM
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modelmakerinc Offline OP
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Thank you Mr. P, Since you did not correct me should I accept the axle pinion angle of 2*-4* nose down is correct?

I dont believe my front crossmember is too high but I will of course double check and measure a few more times.
I will adjust what I need to make the lower bar 2* nose down on the lowest hole.

I will follow up with a few pics

Thank you. henry


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Re: Ladder Bar installation Help Pinion angle [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382354
02/06/13 10:28 AM
02/06/13 10:28 AM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

Thank you Mr. P, Since you did not correct me should I accept the axle pinion angle of 2*-4* nose down is correct?

I dont believe my front crossmember is too high but I will of course double check and measure a few more times.
I will adjust what I need to make the lower bar 2* nose down on the lowest hole.

I will follow up with a few pics

Thank you. henry




1* to a max of 2* down for ladder bars(you get very
little roll up on the pinion with bars)

Re: Ladder Bar installation Help Pinion angle [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1382355
02/06/13 11:29 AM
02/06/13 11:29 AM
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Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Point the pinion at the trans tail shaft at ride height,put your bar adjustment in the middle of the adjusting range.

Re: Ladder Bar installation Help Pinion angle [Re: B G Racing] #1382356
02/10/13 02:05 PM
02/10/13 02:05 PM
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west palm beach, florida
modelmakerinc Offline OP
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Ok here is a pic. and before I start welding I just want to get opinions on the install so far.

The chassis is on stands at the Rake I want/ Ride height, the rear housing is in the proper location and also at ride height.

My ladder bars at the center hole have 1* nose down

Each hole seems to be 2* difference maybe 2.5*

Next lower hole they are at 3* and the bottom hole they are at 5* maybe 5.5*

Do you see any problem or error in what I have so far?

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Re: Ladder Bar installation Help Pinion angle [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382357
02/10/13 02:10 PM
02/10/13 02:10 PM
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MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Ok here is a pic. and before I start welding I just want to get opinions on the install so far.

The chassis is on stands at the Rake I want/ Ride height, the rear housing is in the proper location and also at ride height.

My ladder bars at the center hole have 1* nose down

Each hole seems to be 2* difference maybe 2.5*

Next lower hole they are at 3* and the bottom hole they are at 5* maybe 5.5*

Do you see any problem or error in what I have so far?




Looks good... burn it in... looks like you have plenty
of adjustment
EDIT
One other thing to help you... since your running a
diagonal link and I'm guessing this might be a street
car also... weld a gusset on the rear end down to
the lower hole area on the ladder bar bracket(where
the diagonal link attaches)... that really helps the
bracket from cracking from the side loading on the street

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 02/10/13 02:20 PM.
Re: Ladder Bar installation Help Pinion angle [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1382358
02/10/13 09:20 PM
02/10/13 09:20 PM
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west palm beach, florida
modelmakerinc Offline OP
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Thank you Mr. P-Body. You have been very helpful. Here are a couple pics of the bars so far. The brackets are fully welded and I added 1/8" plate to box them. a little wire brushing and flap wheel to dress it after I weld on the coil-over mounts.

I will add a gusset to the lower end of the ladder bar bracket like you suggest.

when it comes to the coilovers am I trying to get them plumb in both planes left-right, front-back
or is a small amount of angle preferred? if so which direction? thanks Henry

7583415-002.JPG (406 downloads)

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Re: Ladder Bar installation Help Pinion angle [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382359
02/10/13 09:21 PM
02/10/13 09:21 PM
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west palm beach, florida
modelmakerinc Offline OP
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2nd pic

7583417-003.JPG (1009 downloads)

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Re: Ladder Bar installation Help Pinion angle [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382360
02/10/13 09:22 PM
02/10/13 09:22 PM
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west palm beach, florida
modelmakerinc Offline OP
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3rd pic

7583418-004.JPG (565 downloads)

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Re: Ladder Bar install and other build ?'s 67 Coronet [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382361
02/13/13 08:24 PM
02/13/13 08:24 PM
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west palm beach, florida
modelmakerinc Offline OP
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Ok ladder bars are in and done, I am having the diagonal bar tig welded so that will be a few days before I can go get it. The install is only bolted in not tightened as it may come back out.

The coilovers and brackets were installed plumb in both planes, I have a spacer bar installed during the build but it is at what should be ride height.

I have a few other questions in regards to the build and I will accompany with pictures.

1) What is the best way to seal the upper shock mount in the trunk and still access it for removal or do you you guys leave it open around them, I can build a plate to minimize the gap around the coilover

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Re: Ladder Bar install and other build ?'s 67 Coronet [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382362
02/13/13 08:26 PM
02/13/13 08:26 PM
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west palm beach, florida
modelmakerinc Offline OP
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2) I have less than 1/2"inch of space between the tires and fender wells, is this too close? will it be a problem?

7587251-010.JPG (248 downloads)
Last edited by modelmakerinc; 02/13/13 08:28 PM.

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Re: Ladder Bar install and other build ?'s 67 Coronet [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382363
02/13/13 08:33 PM
02/13/13 08:33 PM
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west palm beach, florida
modelmakerinc Offline OP
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The seating position is off centerline of the steering about four inches due to the cage and seat.
It feels a little odd but I could get used to it. what do you think?

I can move the column over a bit with some mods to the dash, opinions?

7587261-006.JPG (305 downloads)

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Re: Ladder Bar install and other build ?'s 67 Coronet [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382364
02/13/13 08:35 PM
02/13/13 08:35 PM
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west palm beach, florida
modelmakerinc Offline OP
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just a pic of the installed rear.

7587263-013.JPG (340 downloads)

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Re: Ladder Bar install and other build ?'s 67 Coronet [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382365
02/14/13 12:07 AM
02/14/13 12:07 AM
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west palm beach, florida
modelmakerinc Offline OP
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nother

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Re: Ladder Bar install and other build ?'s 67 Coronet [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382366
02/14/13 02:24 AM
02/14/13 02:24 AM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

The seating position is off centerline of the steering about four inches due to the cage and seat.
It feels a little odd but I could get used to it. what do you think?

I can move the column over a bit with some mods to the dash, opinions?




The seat is hitting the door bar... is that your
problem.. if thats why the seat is over you can put
a swing out door bar in it with a bend so it clears
the seat...if you have enough room to the door panel..
plus that seat looks wide... might want to look at
a narrower seat... myself I dont like the seat being
off from the steering wheel... I had to do a bit of
work to get mine lined up with it(on my Rampage)

Re: Ladder Bar install and other build ?'s 67 Coronet [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382367
02/14/13 02:29 AM
02/14/13 02:29 AM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

2) I have less than 1/2"inch of space between the tires and fender wells, is this too close? will it be a problem?




I think its gonna hit... I try to make it so I can
slip my fingers along side of the tire(about 3/4")
but I guess you'll find out if they are too close...
the bars look good... looks like you will have plenty
of adjustment

Re: Ladder Bar install and other build ?'s 67 Coronet [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382368
02/14/13 02:58 AM
02/14/13 02:58 AM
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Indiana
Gabby63 Offline
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I agree with Mr P on making more clearance for your tires . Unless you have large fingers I would make sure you have at least 3/4" between the tire & any sheet metal . I also agree this looks like you did it right . I have a 4-link in my 63 so I cannot answer about your ladder adjustment . I would try to close up around your top shock mount . We get enough smoke in there any way . Gary

Re: Ladder Bar install and other build ?'s 67 Coronet [Re: Gabby63] #1382369
02/14/13 08:44 AM
02/14/13 08:44 AM
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modelmakerinc Offline OP
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Thanks, When I measured for tire fitment and backspacing, I had planned on using rear drums, I picked up a set of wilwood disk brakes for next to nothing, unfortunetly the rotor hat is about 5/8 inch thick and pushed the wheels out, you can see in the last pic the extra space I have to the framerail.

I will look for a set of wheels with 5.5 backspace.

15x10 weld draglites 5.5 BackSpace wanted to buy trade for a 15x10 4.5 BS LOL


The seating issue I will keep looking into as I really rather not cut out my door bar and change it. the seats are not yet installed and there is only an inch or so for the door bar to move outward and will still leave the steering offset.

Last edited by modelmakerinc; 02/14/13 09:52 AM.

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Re: Ladder Bar install and other build ?'s 67 Coronet [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382370
02/14/13 11:10 AM
02/14/13 11:10 AM
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Quote:

Thanks, When I measured for tire fitment and backspacing, I had planned on using rear drums, I picked up a set of wilwood disk brakes for next to nothing, unfortunetly the rotor hat is about 5/8 inch thick and pushed the wheels out, you can see in the last pic the extra space I have to the framerail.

I will look for a set of wheels with 5.5 backspace.

15x10 weld draglites 5.5 BackSpace wanted to buy trade for a 15x10 4.5 BS LOL


The seating issue I will keep looking into as I really rather not cut out my door bar and change it. the seats are not yet installed and there is only an inch or so for the door bar to move outward and will still leave the steering offset.




I am trying to figure out is you have a 67 coronet? that is the same car I have been running for 4 years, we started with just standard 8 3/4 rear 430 gear 4 1/2 bs, 29 tall tire, 10.5 tire.
we had a roll bar installed 1 3/4 as per rules, then as we went faster we decided to put a full cage in the car,, we left the roll bar in and just added the 1 5/8 cage loop and down bars, we have no issues with the seats as we kept the standard seats Looking at your pics it appears you have a larger seat than what the car really needs?
as for tire clearance we did have a small one such as yours , we ended up triming that a little more , and rolling it up to make it look normal.
As for adjustments, you wont use all of them, might only use 2, the one your in now and may ,, maybe one other.
We have cal tracs on the 67, wish we didn't buy! be that as it may,, we set the pinion at 3* down
Ladder bars can be nuteral to 2-4 * up hill depending on the 'hit ' you are looking for,

Re: Ladder Bar install and other build ?'s 67 Coronet [Re: dennismopar73] #1382371
02/14/13 01:50 PM
02/14/13 01:50 PM
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modelmakerinc Offline OP
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Dennis, My door bar is a straight shot from the main hoop to the front down bar just on the inside of the rocker on an outrigger from the front "frame" rail.

This straight piece of tube is about 2", 2-1/2" away from the door in the area of my upper arm/ shoulder.

Mr. P-body suggested I need to put in a tube with a bend in it to make clearance. The seat seems wide but is comfortable and I fit well in it. I am not a large guy but I rather be comfortable.

after further adjusting positions, a bent side bar is the way I will go. I wish I hadnt fully welded the straight one in. live and learn

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Re: Ladder Bar install and other build ?'s 67 Coronet [Re: modelmakerinc] #1382372
02/14/13 02:50 PM
02/14/13 02:50 PM
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Quote:

2) I have less than 1/2"inch of space between the tires and fender wells, is this too close? will it be a problem?


Only on corners, especially at speeds above 5 MPH are the Weld Drag lites the ones with the round holes or the triangles? I have a set of weld 10 inch aluminum race wheels with 5.5 B.S. with the round holes that I may not be able to use now that I traded off my Duster


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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