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Crank Scraper+ windage tray=overkill? #1382170
02/05/13 10:17 PM
02/05/13 10:17 PM
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The Pale Blue Dot
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I've finally pulled the trigger on a motor for the RicerCuda and am putting all the pieces together. I've got the Milodon Road Race oil pan and a crank scraper is on the way. I've got an MP windage tray sitting around. Is it worth my time to mod the tray to work with the scraper/pan combo as described?
Oh ya stock stroke 400, it's the shortblock that Brian @ IMM built for Car Craft, and I'm having him massage some Eddie RPM heads. Still the engine will probably not go over 6K rpm ever.
Thanks in advance, Steve

Re: Crank Scraper+ windage tray=overkill? [Re: Skeptic] #1382171
02/05/13 11:14 PM
02/05/13 11:14 PM
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Nebraska
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I wouldnt bother with the scraper if it were mine. To many things trying to do the same thing.


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Re: Crank Scraper+ windage tray=overkill? [Re: Skeptic] #1382172
02/06/13 12:09 AM
02/06/13 12:09 AM
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Cooperstown, NY
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I would use one or the other. I see no reason for both unless you are looking for every bit of HP you can get. A scraper will do the same function as a windage tray, but will also take the oil off from the crank at the same time.


[color:"#00FF00"]68 Fastback Barracuda with some stuff[/color]

Re: Crank Scraper+ windage tray=overkill? [Re: jrlegacy23] #1382173
02/06/13 12:20 AM
02/06/13 12:20 AM
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Fly Over States
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Here is quote from this page here:

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/What%20is%20a%20crank-scraper.html

"General answers: What is windage and what are the differences between an oil baffle versus a windage tray versus a crank scraper?

Windage:
During normal engine operation a significant amount of oil adheres to or becomes entrained in a cloud surrounding the spinning bottom end. The oil droplets are drawn into this cloud by the phenomenon known as the Tea Leaf Paradox, first described by Albert Einstein in 1926. This oil eats up horsepower your engine is making by increasing the rotating mass and also creating parasitic drag. Windage is actually a highly complex set of phenomena. Windage effects increase with: vehicle movement; rpm; stroke; blow-by (atmospheric pressure); bearing clearance; component surface characteristics, oil squirters (there are many types); draining oil from the head, cams, balance shafts and other internal components as well as oil returns from turbos, air-oil separators and catch can drains. Closely related topics are those of pumping losses, crank case ventilation, NVH (noise, vibration, harshness), oil aeration and the cooling function that is required of oil in addition to its lubrication tasks.

There are a number of different types and degrees of oil aeration starting from the baseline solubility of air in a given oil formulation at a given pressure and temperature (about 9% in a paraffinic base at saturation at one bar and 100 degrees C) and progressing through to actual foaming of the oil into a shaving cream like mix. Oil aeration can cause innumerable problems but some common ones are bearing failure, lifter collapse, oil pump failure and over heating and subsequent destruction of oils (and engines).

Baffles, windage trays and scrapers:
An oil baffle is a physical barrier to oil movement that is generally all or partially submerged in the wet sump oil reservoir. Sometimes small fins in other areas of the pan floor or engine can be seen that guide draining oil back to the main sump reservoir and these can be considered oil baffles as well. Typically these are seen in OEM cast aluminum sumps. Here is a picture of a Mercedes diesel engine sump with many baffles that are also crank scrapers. The idea is to keep the end of the pump pickup tube constantly submerged in oil so that it does not suck in air. Some baffles include trap doors that swing and close to enhance this function. So, baffles are ultimately intended to guide fluid consolidated oil to, and keep it around, the oil pump pickup.

A windage tray should prevent fluid reservoir oil that is sloshing from coming into direct physical contact with the rotating bottom end. Windage trays are also meant to shield the reservoir oil from the aerodynamic forces of the rotating assembly. These two basic functions often are in direct conflict with one-another with respect to decreasing the total effects of windage.

A crank scraper (sometimes known as an oil wiper, etc.) is a broad term for technology that actively strips away oil entrained in the air around, as well as oil physically adhering to, the rotating bottom end. Crank scrapers also serve to disrupt the pressure differential that forms in and around the rotating assembly.

Baffles, windage trays and crank scrapers all serve related functions and all can be of mixed design, i.e. dual or even triple purpose. Remember that different OEMs and cultures often use ideosyncratic terms for these various devices so this is only a general guide."

Re: Crank Scraper+ windage tray=overkill? [Re: PHJ426] #1382174
02/06/13 12:45 AM
02/06/13 12:45 AM
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The Pale Blue Dot
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That's where I'm getting the crank scraper from I'm just not sure about the windage tray, they offer modded versions of the MP and Milodon trays.

Re: Crank Scraper+ windage tray=overkill? [Re: Skeptic] #1382175
02/06/13 01:52 AM
02/06/13 01:52 AM
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I would ask them. They appear to have a pretty good handle on these products.

Also tell them your not building a drag car but a road car. Along with windage, crank scrapers and proper oil pans there are two other products that are just as important here they are in no particular order:

http://www.streetortrack.com/Accusump-Preoilers-Accessories-c-453.html

and :

http://www.streetortrack.com/Aluminum-Breather-Tank-with-1-bung-pr-24357.html

Re: Crank Scraper+ windage tray=overkill? [Re: PHJ426] #1382176
02/06/13 11:29 AM
02/06/13 11:29 AM
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The Pale Blue Dot
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I spoke with Kevin about the car, long story short, didn't put any emphasis on yes or no re: the topic. That's why I posted the question here. Thanks for the links. Steve

Re: Crank Scraper+ windage tray=overkill? [Re: Skeptic] #1382177
02/06/13 04:32 PM
02/06/13 04:32 PM
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I would use scraper, tray and baffled pan.
Scraper would scrap oil of from rotating crank etc.
Oil will then drop to tray, what drains it back to pan, less air etc in oil and it also separates oil at pan from crank, so crank wont pull oil from pan.
Baffled pan to keep pickup submerged at oil all times.

Re: Crank Scraper+ windage tray=overkill? [Re: V��peli] #1382178
02/06/13 09:20 PM
02/06/13 09:20 PM
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Weddington, N.C.
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A properly designed scraper ( tight clearance AND lots of adequately sized drainback holes away from the crank) really should make the windage tray redundant. If you run both you best match up the drain back holes.

On a big block a lot of oil gets trapped inside the oil pan mating surface ridge which is like a ledge, the oil needs to drain back to the pan without re contacting the crank.


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Re: Crank Scraper+ windage tray=overkill? [Re: Skeptic] #1382179
02/07/13 01:53 PM
02/07/13 01:53 PM
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Pikes Peak Country
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If you can fit them all together,why not. Just keep in mind that you aren't gaining or loosing big horepower numbers either way. For all the hassle of fitting the scrapper and making it leak free with your tray/pan combo, you may only free up an additional 5-7 horses.

Here is an intersting read on oil testing in regards to viscosity, pans, trays, etc done right here on moparts;
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=1#Post7470286







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