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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: Dakota_Don]
#1381121
02/03/13 09:40 PM
02/03/13 09:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,255
Columbus, GA
Michael Ecks
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,255
Columbus, GA
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If you have a MP Engines book around there should be a good section on how little "octane boosters" actually do. I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
"The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of
your thoughts" ~ Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: Michael Ecks]
#1381124
02/03/13 10:06 PM
02/03/13 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
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Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1381126
02/03/13 10:12 PM
02/03/13 10:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: Dakota_Don]
#1381127
02/03/13 10:13 PM
02/03/13 10:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
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Quote:
and this http://www.ehow.com/how_7990457_boost-octane-alcohol.html
Careful with that Ehow stuff.
Those instructions are sort of convoluted. Sound chopped up from some other info by a writer. At least, that article says to add a drying additive IF you use alcohol. Well alcohol IS a drying additive. 
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: Dakota_Don]
#1381128
02/03/13 10:24 PM
02/03/13 10:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
ahy
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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Quote:
Hello, if i am running lets say 93 octane, how could i raise octane to 95 or 97? Moroso octane boost? E-85? Other? and if have 5 gal of 93 how much would i add?
Mixing in E85 will increase octane but reduce energy value. If you are running a carb, that means bigger jets to put more fuel in. Without the bigger jets, it will be lean and may make detonation worse. Once the tuneup was dialed in for a certain mix, you would have to be consistent from tank to tank which is hard.
Mixing race gas is a proven way to boost octane. Or convert to E85 with a dedicated alcohol carb and tune.
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#1381129
02/03/13 10:25 PM
02/03/13 10:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
Are you saying it's concocted/blended right at/in the gas pump at the gas station itself?
Or before it's delivered to the station?
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1381130
02/03/13 10:30 PM
02/03/13 10:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
Are you saying it's concocted/blended right at/in the gas pump at the gas station itself?
Or before it's delivered to the station?
The pump blends it.
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1381132
02/03/13 10:38 PM
02/03/13 10:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,255
Columbus, GA
Michael Ecks
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,255
Columbus, GA
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Quote:
Quote:
and this http://www.ehow.com/how_7990457_boost-octane-alcohol.html
Careful with that Ehow stuff.
Those instructions are sort of convoluted. Sound chopped up from some other info by a writer. At least, that article says to add a drying additive IF you use alcohol. Well alcohol IS a drying additive.
Checked out that article. And it looks iffy to me. According to my MP book, the three types of boosters contain either Alcohol (methanol), Aromatic Hyrdocarbons (Toluene), or Metallics (Lead of Manganese) with the first two being the least effective. If you can find a booster that actually contains tetraethyl-lead anymore (my book is quite old) you could go up 1.5 to 2 octane points. .75 points with the other two.
And I'm pretty sure isopropyl alcohol does nothing at all when mixed with gasoline. Tried it once in my younger days when I was having a pinging problem and it didn't help at all.
If no one around you sells race gas, call your airport and tell them you are working on an old cesna engine and see if you can buy aviation gas a gas can at a time. Heard of it being done back in the day, but not sure what fuel tax/legalities this would involve.
Last edited by Michael Ecks; 02/03/13 10:48 PM.
"The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of
your thoughts" ~ Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: Dakota_Don]
#1381135
02/04/13 12:41 AM
02/04/13 12:41 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
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RSNOMO
Moparts Torchbearer
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Moparts Torchbearer
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1381136
02/04/13 12:43 AM
02/04/13 12:43 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
B5 Bee
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
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Quote:
Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
That's how Sunoco stations did it back it the days of Sunoco 260. You had a 8 choices of octane from 190 to 260 just by setting the pumps handles.
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: Dakota_Don]
#1381140
02/04/13 11:13 AM
02/04/13 11:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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If you are still running a catalytic converter in your exhaust, stick with Toluene to avoid poisoning it, and to stay safely on the rich side of full throttle air to fuel ratio. Since your are using AKI from the gas pumps, use a Toluene AKI of approximately 103 More AKI, RON, and MON is the table here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_ratingToluene can be bought at paint stores, but it has been dropped from many hardware and big box stores because chemically knowledgeable terrorists can use it to create explosives. xylene with approximate AKI of 105 is more commonly sold now but does not burn as cleanly as Toluene. If you are going to try to get increased detonation resistance from alcohol, go with a water / alcohol spray system on the intake, as it will also cool your air and increase oxygen content, and boost both effective AKI plus net horsepower. Engineering wise it is an extreme waste to mix alcohols with gasoline in the tank when those alcohols could have been mixed 50/50 with water and sprayed into the intake only at full throttle.
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#1381141
02/04/13 12:28 PM
02/04/13 12:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
But not at the pump. They have separate tanks in the ground.
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: Dakota_Don]
#1381142
02/04/13 12:37 PM
02/04/13 12:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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I'm running a snow performance water/meth injection kit. It takes 93 and turns it into 110 or better. They were about $259 I think they are more like $300 now. Pretty easy install. Here's the dyno sheet from a 426 Hemi. my set-up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYw2q7igDGs
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1381147
02/04/13 04:29 PM
02/04/13 04:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
But not at the pump. They have separate tanks in the ground.
They only have 3 tanks in the ground, one for diesel fuel, one for 87 gas and one for 92 gas. The dispenser blends 60% 87 and 40% 92 to give you mid grade. Been that way forever, no one that I ever saw had a mid grade tank.
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1381148
02/04/13 05:39 PM
02/04/13 05:39 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
But not at the pump. They have separate tanks in the ground.
They only have 3 tanks in the ground, one for diesel fuel, one for 87 gas and one for 92 gas. The dispenser blends 60% 87 and 40% 92 to give you mid grade. Been that way forever, no one that I ever saw had a mid grade tank.
Then you never delivered gas to the stores I did.
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: 72ls5fla]
#1381154
02/05/13 01:05 PM
02/05/13 01:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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Re: gas stations
My wife was buying gas at our local cheap gas station. She tried the regular nozzle, but it didn't seem to work. Station attendant said, sorry, we're out of regular. So she tried the mid-grade, didn't seem to work. Station attendant said, sorry, mid-grade is a 50/50 mix of regular and premium. We still have premium, so you could try that.
So she put in a few dollars worth of premium and went off to find a different station to fill her tank with the regular stuff because she saves money wherever she can.
So, at least at that cheap gas station, midgrade is a mix of regular and premium.
R.
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Re: increasing octane?
[Re: dogdays]
#1381155
02/05/13 01:22 PM
02/05/13 01:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Re: gas stations
My wife was buying gas at our local cheap gas station. She tried the regular nozzle, but it didn't seem to work. Station attendant said, sorry, we're out of regular. So she tried the mid-grade, didn't seem to work. Station attendant said, sorry, mid-grade is a 50/50 mix of regular and premium. We still have premium, so you could try that.
So she put in a few dollars worth of premium and went off to find a different station to fill her tank with the regular stuff because she saves money wherever she can.
So, at least at that cheap gas station, midgrade is a mix of regular and premium.
R.
It is at most stations, because a third tank for mid grade is very expensive to install, maintain and pay insurance on. Plus the the 2 fuels have a different spefic gravity and the 2 products can separate because of the different gravitys of each product.
I'm sure some stations have a separate tank for mid grade, but it is not the norm because of what I said above.
I own some of the largest and newest tanks in all of Cincinnati.
I buy semi trucks loads of gas and diesel everyday, there is no mid grade sold in the Cincinnati market wholesale. it's all blended at the stations by the dispensers, the pumps are inside the tanks pushing it to the dispensers. 
Last edited by Challenger 1; 02/05/13 03:45 PM.
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