Posted By: Dakota_Don
increasing octane? - 02/04/13 01:03 AM
Hello, if i am running lets say 93 octane, how could i raise octane to 95 or 97? Moroso octane boost? E-85? Other? and if have 5 gal of 93 how much would i add?
increasing octane?
Posted By: Michael Ecks
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 01:40 AM
If you have a MP Engines book around there should be a good section on how little "octane boosters" actually do. I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
Posted By: Dakota_Don
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 01:43 AM
i did find this??http://www.ehow.com/how_7606189_use-isopropyl-alcohol-increase-octane.html
Posted By: Dakota_Don
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 02:03 AM
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 02:06 AM
Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Posted By: Dakota_Don
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 02:10 AM
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 02:12 AM
Quote:Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 02:13 AM
Quote:
and this http://www.ehow.com/how_7990457_boost-octane-alcohol.html
Careful with that Ehow stuff.
Those instructions are sort of convoluted. Sound chopped up from some other info by a writer. At least, that article says to add a drying additive IF you use alcohol. Well alcohol IS a drying additive.
Posted By: ahy
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 02:24 AM
Quote:
Hello, if i am running lets say 93 octane, how could i raise octane to 95 or 97? Moroso octane boost? E-85? Other? and if have 5 gal of 93 how much would i add?
Mixing in E85 will increase octane but reduce energy value. If you are running a carb, that means bigger jets to put more fuel in. Without the bigger jets, it will be lean and may make detonation worse. Once the tuneup was dialed in for a certain mix, you would have to be consistent from tank to tank which is hard.
Mixing race gas is a proven way to boost octane. Or convert to E85 with a dedicated alcohol carb and tune.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 02:25 AM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
Are you saying it's concocted/blended right at/in the gas pump at the gas station itself?
Or before it's delivered to the station?
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 02:30 AM
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
Are you saying it's concocted/blended right at/in the gas pump at the gas station itself?
Or before it's delivered to the station?
The pump blends it.
Posted By: Michael Ecks
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 02:31 AM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
Wki - Qasoline Blending
Posted By: Michael Ecks
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 02:38 AM
Quote:Quote:
and this http://www.ehow.com/how_7990457_boost-octane-alcohol.html
Careful with that Ehow stuff.
Those instructions are sort of convoluted. Sound chopped up from some other info by a writer. At least, that article says to add a drying additive IF you use alcohol. Well alcohol IS a drying additive.
Checked out that article. And it looks iffy to me. According to my MP book, the three types of boosters contain either Alcohol (methanol), Aromatic Hyrdocarbons (Toluene), or Metallics (Lead of Manganese) with the first two being the least effective. If you can find a booster that actually contains tetraethyl-lead anymore (my book is quite old) you could go up 1.5 to 2 octane points. .75 points with the other two.
And I'm pretty sure isopropyl alcohol does nothing at all when mixed with gasoline. Tried it once in my younger days when I was having a pinging problem and it didn't help at all.
If no one around you sells race gas, call your airport and tell them you are working on an old cesna engine and see if you can buy aviation gas a gas can at a time. Heard of it being done back in the day, but not sure what fuel tax/legalities this would involve.
Posted By: lewtot184
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 02:38 AM
if i remember correctly, alcohol has no octane value. its just a slower burning fuel without a lot of BTU value. you need to research what "octane" is.
Posted By: Dakota_Don
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 04:36 AM
so basically all that stuff is hog wash............... but if i get 114 proof fuel(airplane) and add 1 gal of that to 5 gallon of 93 octane what would i have? Is there a chart? I cant find one at all.
Posted By: RSNOMO
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 04:41 AM
Posted By: B5 Bee
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 04:43 AM
Quote:Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
That's how Sunoco stations did it back it the days of Sunoco 260. You had a 8 choices of octane from 190 to 260 just by setting the pumps handles.
Posted By: ahy
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 04:46 AM
1 gallon of race 114 mixed with 5 gallons of pump 93 would give 96.5 octane based on straight ratios. It doesn't quite work that way but that gives you an idea.
If the race fuel is leaded, it will likely bring up the octane more than the straight ratio calculation. 97?, 98? it depends on the particular make-up of the two fuels. You may have to experiment to find the right mix for your combo.
If the race fuel is leaded, it will likely bring up the octane more than the straight ratio calculation. 97?, 98? it depends on the particular make-up of the two fuels. You may have to experiment to find the right mix for your combo.
Posted By: Dakota_Don
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 04:50 AM
alright i found this finally http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/Octanemix.html
Posted By: JoesMopar
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 05:43 AM
I usually mix 5 gallons of Sunoco 110 leaded race gas in with whatever amount of Sunoco non-ethanol 93 to fill my tank and my car runs perfectly.
Posted By: 360view
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 03:13 PM
If you are still running a catalytic converter in your exhaust, stick with Toluene to avoid poisoning it,
and to stay safely on the rich side of full throttle air to fuel ratio.
Since your are using AKI from the gas pumps,
use a Toluene AKI of approximately 103
More AKI, RON, and MON is the table here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Toluene can be bought at paint stores,
but it has been dropped from many hardware and big box stores because chemically knowledgeable terrorists can use it to create explosives.
xylene with approximate AKI of 105
is more commonly sold now
but does not burn as cleanly as Toluene.
If you are going to try to get increased detonation resistance from alcohol,
go with a
water / alcohol spray system on the intake,
as it will also cool your air
and increase oxygen content,
and boost both effective AKI
plus net horsepower.
Engineering wise
it is an extreme waste
to mix alcohols with gasoline in the tank
when those alcohols could have been
mixed 50/50 with water
and sprayed into the intake only at full throttle.
and to stay safely on the rich side of full throttle air to fuel ratio.
Since your are using AKI from the gas pumps,
use a Toluene AKI of approximately 103
More AKI, RON, and MON is the table here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Toluene can be bought at paint stores,
but it has been dropped from many hardware and big box stores because chemically knowledgeable terrorists can use it to create explosives.
xylene with approximate AKI of 105
is more commonly sold now
but does not burn as cleanly as Toluene.
If you are going to try to get increased detonation resistance from alcohol,
go with a
water / alcohol spray system on the intake,
as it will also cool your air
and increase oxygen content,
and boost both effective AKI
plus net horsepower.
Engineering wise
it is an extreme waste
to mix alcohols with gasoline in the tank
when those alcohols could have been
mixed 50/50 with water
and sprayed into the intake only at full throttle.
Posted By: Dodgeguy101
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 04:28 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
But not at the pump. They have separate tanks in the ground.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 04:37 PM
I'm running a snow performance water/meth injection kit. It takes 93 and turns it into 110 or better. They were about $259 I think they are more like $300 now. Pretty easy install. Here's the dyno sheet from a 426 Hemi.
my set-up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYw2q7igDGs
my set-up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYw2q7igDGs
Posted By: Golden-Arm
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 06:55 PM
not sure about where you live, but here in my town i can drive to the airport, pull up to the pumps, and fill up with 100 octane av-gas. it's around six bucks a gallon, six fifty for full service. cheaper than race gas, that's around eight fifty a gallon. 
Posted By: Mastershake340
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 07:01 PM
It's illegal for fuel vendors to sell avgas to people to use in cars so you need to either find someone who plays a little fast and loose with the rules or take a can to the airport to fill and tell them it's for an aircraft engine your testing or some story like that.
I read this on an aviation site the other day, perhaps the days of leaded racing fuel are numbered?
http://www.avweb.com/avwebbiz/news/Avgas_Safe_Leaded_Car_Gas_Gone_208088-1.html?type=pf
I read this on an aviation site the other day, perhaps the days of leaded racing fuel are numbered?
http://www.avweb.com/avwebbiz/news/Avgas_Safe_Leaded_Car_Gas_Gone_208088-1.html?type=pf
Posted By: Golden-Arm
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 07:11 PM
my local airport opens the gate for you, and directs you to the pumps. you pay at the pump or pay cash at the office. i understand the concept of road taxes, but here at my airport it's not a big deal i guess. i bought 10 gallons a couple of weeks ago, with my next door neighbor. we're regulars there. he runs it in his truck, and fills it up at the pump. i buy it by the 5 gallon can. 
Posted By: 74yellowduster
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 08:22 PM
this will help if you are stuck with too high compression but have to run street gas
http://www.quickfueltechnology.com/carbu...50-cfm-e85.html
you might have to upgrade your fuel pump or any other parts of your fuel system that cant work with E85, it all depends
http://www.quickfueltechnology.com/carbu...50-cfm-e85.html
you might have to upgrade your fuel pump or any other parts of your fuel system that cant work with E85, it all depends
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 08:29 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
But not at the pump. They have separate tanks in the ground.
They only have 3 tanks in the ground, one for diesel fuel, one for 87 gas and one for 92 gas. The dispenser blends 60% 87 and 40% 92 to give you mid grade. Been that way forever, no one that I ever saw had a mid grade tank.
Posted By: Dodgeguy101
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 09:39 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
... I've always heard gas stations get their midgrade gas, by pulling from the lower and higher grade gas tanks. Don't know that for sure, but if so you could probably find a place that sells high octane race gas and buy a couple of gallons to mix in with what you have.
That sounds like a big 'wives tale' story.
Gas is very regulated and monitored. No way of blending high and low octane at the pump.
Incorrect. Mixing the two is exactly how mid-grade is concocted.
But not at the pump. They have separate tanks in the ground.
They only have 3 tanks in the ground, one for diesel fuel, one for 87 gas and one for 92 gas. The dispenser blends 60% 87 and 40% 92 to give you mid grade. Been that way forever, no one that I ever saw had a mid grade tank.
Then you never delivered gas to the stores I did.
Posted By: Ply72rr
Re: increasing octane? - 02/04/13 09:52 PM
I have read about the Kemco Octane Supreme stuff but have not tried it. It's supposed to contain TETRAETHYL LEAD.
Octane Supreme 130
Posted By: Spaceman Spiff
Re: increasing octane? - 02/05/13 12:10 AM
Quote:
Hello, if i am running lets say 93 octane, how could i raise octane to 95 or 97? Moroso octane boost? E-85? Other? and if have 5 gal of 93 how much would i add?
Why do you need more than 93? Not sarcasm, just wondering how you came to that conclusion.
Posted By: Dakota_Don
Re: increasing octane? - 02/05/13 12:59 AM
No cats
Posted By: galen
Re: increasing octane? - 02/05/13 01:54 AM
I use this chart to blend to 98 for my street driven Belvedere at 12 to 1. I blend C16 with 91. You can use any race gas but I keep C16 on hand for the drag boat. http://www.motorsportsracingfuels.com/OctaneCalculator.html
Posted By: 72ls5fla
Re: increasing octane? - 02/05/13 05:14 AM
Quote:
I have read about the Kemco Octane Supreme stuff but have not tried it. It's supposed to contain TETRAETHYL LEAD.
Octane Supreme 130
I buy the stuff by the case. Works excellent - real TEL.
I keep two cases around all the time. Blend about 1.5 ounces to a gallon of 93 and you will end up with fuel around 96-97 octane.
The lead content is minimal - so it is like having low lead.
Plugs stay pretty clean and you don't get the bad fouling that happended back in the day.
Kemco went out of business but another copany purchased the rights and all the TEL they had stored.
You can get it at this website - cheapest I found.
http://www.wildbillscorvette.com/OctaneSupreme01.htm
bill
Posted By: dogdays
Re: increasing octane? - 02/05/13 05:05 PM
Re: gas stations
My wife was buying gas at our local cheap gas station. She tried the regular nozzle, but it didn't seem to work. Station attendant said, sorry, we're out of regular. So she tried the mid-grade, didn't seem to work. Station attendant said, sorry, mid-grade is a 50/50 mix of regular and premium. We still have premium, so you could try that.
So she put in a few dollars worth of premium and went off to find a different station to fill her tank with the regular stuff because she saves money wherever she can.
So, at least at that cheap gas station, midgrade is a mix of regular and premium.
R.
My wife was buying gas at our local cheap gas station. She tried the regular nozzle, but it didn't seem to work. Station attendant said, sorry, we're out of regular. So she tried the mid-grade, didn't seem to work. Station attendant said, sorry, mid-grade is a 50/50 mix of regular and premium. We still have premium, so you could try that.
So she put in a few dollars worth of premium and went off to find a different station to fill her tank with the regular stuff because she saves money wherever she can.
So, at least at that cheap gas station, midgrade is a mix of regular and premium.
R.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: increasing octane? - 02/05/13 05:22 PM
Quote:
Re: gas stations
My wife was buying gas at our local cheap gas station. She tried the regular nozzle, but it didn't seem to work. Station attendant said, sorry, we're out of regular. So she tried the mid-grade, didn't seem to work. Station attendant said, sorry, mid-grade is a 50/50 mix of regular and premium. We still have premium, so you could try that.
So she put in a few dollars worth of premium and went off to find a different station to fill her tank with the regular stuff because she saves money wherever she can.
So, at least at that cheap gas station, midgrade is a mix of regular and premium.
R.
It is at most stations, because a third tank for mid grade is very expensive to install, maintain and pay insurance on. Plus the the 2 fuels have a different spefic gravity and the 2 products can separate because of the different gravitys of each product.
I'm sure some stations have a separate tank for mid grade, but it is not the norm because of what I said above.
I own some of the largest and newest tanks in all of Cincinnati.
I buy semi trucks loads of gas and diesel everyday, there is no mid grade sold in the Cincinnati market wholesale. it's all blended at the stations by the dispensers, the pumps are inside the tanks pushing it to the dispensers.
