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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1379127
01/31/13 04:52 AM
01/31/13 04:52 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
The issue may be worn parts, but consider this - the O/D trans drops the engine RPM around 1000 more on the 1-2 shift than a Hemi box. That means the syncros/blockers have to slow the countershaft, input shaft, and now 2 clutch discs that much more to match the output shafts speed to make the 1-2 shift. I would think the extra load on the syncros and blocker rings would result in both a slower shift and more wear and tear on the parts. 
Those things were a pain to shift fast even when they were new.
The only way we could get the one in my buddy's 76 R/T to shift was to adjust the clutch so it had barely any free play. This gave the clutch maximum disengagement so the synchro could do its thing. The trans didn't crash, it just flat would not go past neutral on a power shift and it would hang just shifting fast if you didn't smash the clutch right into the rug.
Are you running 90wt or ATF in it? I would try ATF if it doesn't already have it in there. Also don't use synthetic oil in it. Synchros need metal to metal contact to work and there is nothing better than synthetic oil to prevent this.
Kevin
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: radar]
#1379130
01/31/13 12:27 PM
01/31/13 12:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY
Truck Nut
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Truck Nut
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
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No problems here. I can speed shift my OD833 just as fast as any other 4 speed. What condition is your shifter in? Im changing mine from the factory 1 to a barely used Comp Plus I recently picked up. 
I am truckless..
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: radar]
#1379132
01/31/13 12:37 PM
01/31/13 12:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 37
Minnesota
Shawnb
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 37
Minnesota
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First thanks for the help trying to figure out a solution. To answer your questions I think it has 80w90 in it. I dont think the problem is worn parts in the overdrive. One of my 2 transmissions is new rebuilt and all new parts, the other is uesd. It has the same problem with both. With each unit removed the syncros look good. To evil spirit, ive been told by a local guy the exact thing you stated. The trans drops the engine down 1000 more RPM on the overdrive A833 and the syncros have to slow the input shaft that much more. To add to that now I have to slow 2 clutch discs rather than 1. I will do a lot of freeway driving and I like the fact I can do that now @ 2800 rpm. One response asked what the problem is. Its after 1st gear @ 5500 rpm I depress the clutch all the way to shift and the shifter will not pull down to 2nd. If I wait and wait and keep pulling it will a go into 2nd few seconds later. That does me no good in a street race though. I was told that I need closer ratios than I have in 1-2-3 and this wont happen. Is that true? And if so how do I do that?
Thanks
Last edited by Shawnb; 02/03/13 02:44 AM.
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: Shawnb]
#1379133
01/31/13 12:44 PM
01/31/13 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,977
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,977
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
First thanks for the help trying to figure out a solution. To answer your questions I think it has 80w90 in it. I dont think the problem is worn parts in the overdrive. One of my 2 transmissions is new rebuilt and all new parts, the other is uesd. It has the same problem with both. With each unit removed the syncros look good. To evil spirit, ive been told by a local guy the exact thing you stated. The trans drops the engine down 1000 more RPM on the overdrive A833 and the syncros have to slow the input shaft that much more. To add to that now I have to slow 2 clutch discs rather than 1. To rapidfire64 you said put your 18 spline Hemi 4 speed back in and "change the D60 to 3.54"?????? You mean change a gear? Can I do that? I do have 29" rear tires. I will do a lot of freeway driving and I like the fact I can do that now @ 2800 rpm. One response asked what the problem is. Its after 1st gear @ 5500 rpm I depress the clutch all the way to shift and the shifter will not pull down to 2nd. If I wait and wait and keep pulling it will a go into 2nd few seconds later. That does me no good in a street race though. I was told that I need closer ratios than I have in 1-2-3 and this wont happen. Is that true? And if so how do I do that?
Thanks
Passon sells an OD gear set with gear splits like a 727, but it's an 18 spline input shaft and about $2k. Is your OD in an alum case ?
you are asking a lot from that OD trans , I'm surprised it hasn't scattered yet.
Street racing 
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: JohnRR]
#1379135
01/31/13 01:03 PM
01/31/13 01:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 37
Minnesota
Shawnb
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 37
Minnesota
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Im a bit surprised it didnt explode yet too. The M/T street slick tires bite too. We ponuded te hell out of it last summer. Enough to ruine the 1st clutch set. That overdrive is stronger than you would think. $2k is just for the Hemi 4 speed gear set? Could the problem be with the fluid or adjustment? Is there anything I can try with the set up I have now?
Last edited by Shawnb; 01/31/13 02:05 PM.
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: JohnRR]
#1379140
01/31/13 02:04 PM
01/31/13 02:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 511
AZ.
696pack
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 511
AZ.
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Quote:
Quote:
First thanks for the help trying to figure out a solution. To answer your questions I think it has 80w90 in it. I dont think the problem is worn parts in the overdrive. One of my 2 transmissions is new rebuilt and all new parts, the other is uesd. It has the same problem with both. With each unit removed the syncros look good. To evil spirit, ive been told by a local guy the exact thing you stated. The trans drops the engine down 1000 more RPM on the overdrive A833 and the syncros have to slow the input shaft that much more. To add to that now I have to slow 2 clutch discs rather than 1. To rapidfire64 you said put your 18 spline Hemi 4 speed back in and "change the D60 to 3.54"?????? You mean change a gear? Can I do that? I do have 29" rear tires. I will do a lot of freeway driving and I like the fact I can do that now @ 2800 rpm. One response asked what the problem is. Its after 1st gear @ 5500 rpm I depress the clutch all the way to shift and the shifter will not pull down to 2nd. If I wait and wait and keep pulling it will a go into 2nd few seconds later. That does me no good in a street race though. I was told that I need closer ratios than I have in 1-2-3 and this wont happen. Is that true? And if so how do I do that?
Thanks
Passon sells an OD gear set with gear splits like a 727, but it's an 18 spline input shaft and about $2k. Is your OD in an alum case ?
you are asking a lot from that OD trans , I'm surprised it hasn't scattered yet.
Street racing
John is correct. The old Chrysler 4 speed ODs were not intended to be a racer's trans they were built for people that wanted better mileage. It is NOT the trans you want behind a big cube engine that you are trying to bang gears in. It is just a matter of short time before you scatter it.
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: 696pack]
#1379141
01/31/13 03:44 PM
01/31/13 03:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,367
Wheatfield, NY
Cuda340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,367
Wheatfield, NY
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just a thought. Try and adjust the pressure plate to disengage the clutch discs more. The maybe still grabbing enough to keep the input spinning. You need at least .060 or so to keep things happy, use a feeler gauge between the disc or in your case discs to see how much clearence you have. But as others have said that OD is on borrowed time. With 29" tires 4:10s and the 18-spline 55mph should be around 3300RPM.... Put the 3:54s in it that thing has a TON of torque!!!!! You wont need the OD then... Good luck  I want to add also make absolutely sure the gear oil in the trans is GL-4 rated not the newer GL-5 Stuff!!!! Gl-5 rated has too many friction modifiers in it and it doesnt let the synrco grab the gear effectively causing lazy shifts and grinding. ATF may work for you too as others have used it but I am sticking with my guns of GL-4 rated 80-90wt. It may be tougher to find the Gl-4 stuff but it is out there still...
Last edited by Cuda340; 01/31/13 03:48 PM.
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: Shawnb]
#1379142
01/31/13 04:53 PM
01/31/13 04:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
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Mopar had a lot of complaints on the shifting of the stock NP833 when they first came out way back when, change the fluid and run straight Type F ATF, non synthetic Call Mcleod and ask them how much clearance(free play) you should have between the clutch discs and the flywheel, floaters,with a feeler gauge, set that clearnce up and see if it shifts better
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1379144
01/31/13 08:51 PM
01/31/13 08:51 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Hard shifting A833's usually have one of two things in common, or both. Clutch plate departure and shifter issues.
As mentioned, ask McLeod for the departure gap and set it that way. Do not use pedal free play. For those of us running OEM replacement clutches that would be .060". Rebuild your clutch linkage system. New bushings, dump the rubber bushing int he clutch fork for a metal one, new ball studs, replace anything worn.
A good shifter is a must. I like Hurst Comp/Comp Plus. You HAVE TO adjust is properly. Using the plastic pin included is not best. Get a drill bit that just fits thru the alignment holes, the tighter the better here. Then adjust your rods so that they are centered up in the shifter levers. Use metal bushing not plastic in the shifter levers, both at the trans and the shifter. Use spring washers and/or shims to remove any slop between the rods and the levers, but not so much that they bind.
One this is all done your A833 will power shift properly, assuming the trans was rebuilt proper as you mentioned.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: Supercuda]
#1379145
01/31/13 11:49 PM
01/31/13 11:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 37
Minnesota
Shawnb
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 37
Minnesota
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Thanks for all the info. It will be a little bit before I can try some of these things. I will call McLeod for some specs and check the price to swap to 18 spline. I will look into the fluid issue. As for new shifter and clutch linkage, it's all new. Correct hurst shifter. All clutch pivots and linkage were missing when I got the car last year. Finished complete restoration in June 2012. Everything is new. I don't thing the mounts are metal like the last poster mentioned. Do I get that from hurst? Also the more I think about this it seems the best idea will be to get a hemi 4 speed and change the Dana 60 from 4.10 to 3.54. According to the calculator on summit direct drive 4th gear 70 mph on freeway with 3.54 and the 30" tall tire I have it will run about 2950 rpm which would be ok I guess. My 68 Bee has a 727 where 3rd is direct drive and 3.23 gears and same M/T tires. I turn 3000 at 75 mph. In the orange 69 I'm about 2500 or so now.
Last edited by Shawnb; 02/01/13 12:23 PM.
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: Shawnb]
#1379148
02/01/13 11:33 AM
02/01/13 11:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,757
Gilbertsville, PA 19525
Pntastar69
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,757
Gilbertsville, PA 19525
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Quote:
I have a 69 Super Bee with a 543 stroker 715 ft lb torque, 410 gears, a-833 overdrive 4 speed trans. I burned thru the 1st 500 hp clutch in a week or so. Swapped to a McLeod twin disc clutch system. The problem is with 2 different transmissions it is very hard to shift from 1-2. The reason I use the a-833 23 spline overdrive from I believe a mid 70's 2 wheel drive truck is with the hemi 4 speed and 410 gears it screams 3800 down the freeway. I don't race the car other than on the street. I need to be able to take it on the freeway and hate driving in the slow lane. The trans itself seeme to hold up to the torque ok but still a very difficult 1-2 shift. I was told the reason this happens to the overdrive and not the hemi 4 speed is because the difference in 1-2 gear ratios in the overdrive is much larger. I've looked up the specs and it is larger. What can I do? I'd hate to switch to the hemi 4 speed because the McLeod twin disc 23 spline set up was expensive and holds great. Is there a gear set for the overdrive that is closer ratios in 1-2-3 and a bigger gap to overdrive? I can do most of the street driving I want to do in 1-2-3 anyways. Any ideas? Thanks in advance......
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: Shawnb]
#1379150
02/01/13 01:31 PM
02/01/13 01:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 511
AZ.
696pack
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 511
AZ.
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Quote:
What do you mean NO NO NO? You guys dont get on it on the street? Why such interest in OD833? The core I bought was $80 @ Iola old car show in Wisconsin. They are cheap .
They are cheap for a reason.
As I stated earlier in this thread:
The old Chrysler 4 speed ODs were not intended to be a racer's trans they were built for people that wanted better mileage. It is NOT the trans you want behind a big cube engine that you are trying to bang gears in. It is just a matter of short time before you scatter it.
They have a terrible gear spread for racing.
I paid $2500. for my Passon 4 speed overdrive gears set shipped and installed by a professional shop in my 4 speed case. compare the gear ratios listed in the link with what you have in your gas miser Chrysler 4 speed overdrive and you will see what I am talking about.
http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_Overdrive_Flyer_20091109.pdf
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: 696pack]
#1379151
02/01/13 04:31 PM
02/01/13 04:31 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
Quote:
What do you mean NO NO NO? You guys dont get on it on the street? Why such interest in OD833? The core I bought was $80 @ Iola old car show in Wisconsin. They are cheap .
They are cheap for a reason.
As I stated earlier in this thread:
The old Chrysler 4 speed ODs were not intended to be a racer's trans they were built for people that wanted better mileage. It is NOT the trans you want behind a big cube engine that you are trying to bang gears in. It is just a matter of short time before you scatter it.
They have a terrible gear spread for racing.
I paid $2500. for my Passon 4 speed overdrive gears set shipped and installed by a professional shop in my 4 speed case. compare the gear ratios listed in the link with what you have in your gas miser Chrysler 4 speed overdrive and you will see what I am talking about.
http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_Overdrive_Flyer_20091109.pdf
Do you really think you would notice the wide spacing with 700+ ft/lbs under your right foot?.
While the design has some issues like the aluminum case with an unbushed countershaft, and less than ideal gear spacing for cars with no torque  they are IMHO woefully under rated as far as average street cruiser duty goes. I know guys that have them behind stock to mild hemi's and have drove them cross country with zero issues. As long as you run BFG TA's you will never get a load on it big enough to hurt anything. Not saying you can't break it, just that it isn't nearly as easy as everyone thinks it is.
Kevin
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: Twostick]
#1379152
02/01/13 05:17 PM
02/01/13 05:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
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Try taking off in 2nd. Might be quicker that way anyway.
Spring for a Passion OD trans.
Not sure if I saw this mentioned or not; put in a good torque strap if you don't already have one. That has made a world of difference in the 4 speed cars I have installed them in.
I want my fair share
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#1379153
02/01/13 05:29 PM
02/01/13 05:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY
Truck Nut
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Truck Nut
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
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Id wadger if he would listen and put the ATF in it like its supposed to have he would find it a lot easier to shift.
I rebuilt 2 of them for a friend of mine for his Feather Dusters. ! had the ATF put in it. The other 1 he wanted the Mobil 1 syn in it. The 1 with the ATF shifted fine, the other 1 with the M1 would hardly shift into 2nd gear untill the fluid was hot. We drained the M1 out, refilled with ATF and that 1 worked just like the first 1. They DONT like the heavy lube...I know of 1 in a Hemi Superbird that works just fine in it also.
I am truckless..
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: Twostick]
#1379155
02/02/13 02:50 AM
02/02/13 02:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 37
Minnesota
Shawnb
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 37
Minnesota
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Yes I am going to try the ATF and readjust the clutches. I can't exactly test anything right now. The current outside temp in Minnesota is -14 degrees. Test drives would be though even If the ground was not covered in salt........no salt ever.... I think I might go with the D60 3.54 change and hemi 4 speed. Even if I do that I will swap fluid first and adjust clutches prior to removal to satisfy my curiosity and so I know the A833 OD is solid before I sell it to someone. I will post my findings. Thanks
Last edited by Shawnb; 02/03/13 12:11 AM.
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: Shawnb]
#1379158
02/02/13 12:52 PM
02/02/13 12:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
racealittle
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
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Does the transmission shift ok if you drive the car easy?
I had this situation years ago. I only had the problem when things got torqued up. Look for clearance issues for the shifter and linkage rods. Also check all mounts and torque straps that have been added. You can't have any movement at all in the drivetrain for that 1-2 shift for some reason. Once I had good clearance and potential drivetrain movement in check, all was well.
Too many cars, too many parts, too little coin, too little space to work in, too little time left to make it all happen!
Update: down to one ride, still too many parts, a little more jingle in the pocket, gaining space, and it's going to happen this year!
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: radar]
#1379161
02/02/13 05:12 PM
02/02/13 05:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
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I have most of the parts to build one, but I need to find a b-body OD output shaft and get a rebuild kit. I was thinking of using one for cross country driving, it might get me up to 8mpg with the 572...
1941 Taylorcraft
1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
1998 Wrangler
2008 Kia Rio
2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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Re: A-833 overdrive won't shift 543 stroker
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1379165
02/03/13 12:20 PM
02/03/13 12:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Dude, if up shifting and down shifting are difficult, especially when not speed shifting you have issues that are not related to the power output.
When I set up my last A833, rebuilt it myself, I could up and downshift without a clutch, gear oil in trans not ATF either. I could speed shift the thing like no other trans I ever had.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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x2 
The right foot controls the fuel economy, or the lack of it 
