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Piston ring recomendation? #1374496 01/23/13 01:19 AM 01/23/13 01:19 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar OP master
451Mopar OP master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	Freshing up the 500" stroked 400 after the cylinder head issue, and I am curious if changing the file fit Total seal CR9190-130 rings to a different type or brand would make much difference. The engine is 12.4:1 compression and max RPM is 7,000. Anyone use the M9190-130 MaxSeal gapless top ring set? Last edited by 451Mopar; 01/23/13 01:52 AM.

Re: Piston ring recomendation? [Re: 451Mopar] #1374497 01/24/13 02:55 AM 01/24/13 02:55 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar OP master
451Mopar OP master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	Anyone using gapless rings? Are they worth the extra $100+ over the standard rings?

Re: Piston ring recomendation? [Re: 451Mopar] #1374498 01/24/13 04:55 AM 01/24/13 04:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,485 SoCal Brian Hafliger master
Brian Hafliger master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,485 SoCal	Quote: Anyone using gapless rings? Are they worth the extra $100+ over the standard rings? If 5 or 6 HP is worth over 100.00 to ya then go for it! Brian Hafliger

Re: Piston ring recomendation? [Re: Brian Hafliger] #1374499 01/24/13 10:24 AM 01/24/13 10:24 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Gapless were invented for dirt cars that ate rings- They do offer impressive leak down test results but on the dyno I have never seen the HP gain. Correctly filed rings with a ductile top ring is the standard that has won most races. For whatever reason the leak down that looks fantastic does not seem to convert to more power--because of ring flutter at higher RPM or what I don't know but gapless rings are not magic or they would be in every engine built You have to remember that KB did back to back dyno test while working on the proper gap for their hyper pistons and the top gap had to exceed something like .055 before they could see a HP drop--Now..thats their tale but many shops agree, keep rings from butting and make sure fresh cylinders are clean and you have done all that you can in that dept. Last edited by crabman173; 01/24/13 10:29 AM.

Re: Piston ring recomendation? [Re: 451Mopar] #1374500 01/24/13 03:42 PM 01/24/13 03:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,176 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,176 Bend,OR USA	Total Seal does not, the last time I talked to them about race engine ring packages, recommend there gapless rings for drag racing I like and use the Speed Pro file to fit moly top, cast second and standard tension oil rings on motors with no vacume pump Hastings( American Hammer) makes some nice race ring packages also Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Piston ring recomendation? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1374501 01/24/13 08:36 PM 01/24/13 08:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,410 Belpre,Ohio C CHAPPER master
CHAPPER master C Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,410 Belpre,Ohio	Quote: Total Seal does not, the last time I talked to them about race engine ring packages, recommend there gapless rings for drag racing I like and use the Speed Pro file to fit moly top, cast second and standard tension oil rings on motors with no vacume pump Hastings( American Hammer) makes some nice race ring packages also I am getting away from all the "trick of the week" ring set-ups. I have always used the old 1/16-1/16-3/16 Speed Pro rings as Cab has mentioned,,,moly/cast/standard tension oil ring...I think they are the most fail-safe ring set going. I have tried other sets and had some problems of one sort or another enough times. I am not looking for 3-4 HP. If you like drag racing, support your local track.

Re: Piston ring recomendation? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1374502 01/25/13 04:37 AM 01/25/13 04:37 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar OP master
451Mopar OP master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	Thanks guys I did some web searching and it seems most people think they are no better than the standard moly rings. I may just reuse the rings I have. Only a few dozen 1/4 mile rounds and maybe 200 street miles on the engine, but somehow I managed to bend an oil ring (I think moving parts around The bearings looked good too, but I am thinking of having the pistons cut for deeper valve reliefs and re-balance the engine.

Re: Piston ring recomendation? [Re: 451Mopar] #1374503 01/25/13 01:15 PM 01/25/13 01:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion	I`d go moly top, napier second and standard tension oil unless you run a vac pump. I run this set up w/out a v-pump and med tension rings and have just a bit of blow-by so I may end up installing a pump just to help w/leaks and ad maybe controll blow-by a bit........... Last edited by Thumperdart; 01/25/13 01:32 PM. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: Piston ring recomendation? [Re: 451Mopar] #1374504 01/25/13 01:41 PM 01/25/13 01:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH Taking time off to work on my car
BradH Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Quote: Anyone use the M9190-130 MaxSeal gapless top ring set? IIRC that's what I ran in the last build of my 452. I'm not sure whether I could quantify any improvements over a more conventional ring package w/o an exacting back-to-back test, although I like them in theory. However, this time I went back to a conventional top ring, switched to a Napier 2nd, and lowered the oil tension from 23# to 18#. Since the engine isn't running, yet, all I can say is this "should" provide decent oil control while offering some reduction in friction compared to the previous ring pack.

Re: Piston ring recomendation? [Re: Thumperdart] #1374505 01/25/13 03:11 PM 01/25/13 03:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida P Performance Only top fuel
Performance Only top fuel P Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida	Quote: I`d go moly top, napier second and standard tension oil unless you run a vac pump. I run this set up w/out a v-pump and med tension rings and have just a bit of blow-by so I may end up installing a pump just to help w/leaks and ad maybe controll blow-by a bit........... On a true street car i prefer to stay away from the napier 2nd ring. During normal street driving they can actually scrape too much oil off the cylinder walls which causes more wear. Racing engines can utilize the napier ring more effectively because they see continued high rpm which throws additional oil up on the cylinder walls. They're also very effective for engines using power adders where even small amounts of oil getting past the rings and into the chambers can wreak havoc. machine shop owner and engine builder

Re: Piston ring recomendation? [Re: Performance Only] #1374506 01/25/13 03:28 PM 01/25/13 03:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion	Quote: Quote: I`d go moly top, napier second and standard tension oil unless you run a vac pump. I run this set up w/out a v-pump and med tension rings and have just a bit of blow-by so I may end up installing a pump just to help w/leaks and ad maybe controll blow-by a bit........... On a true street car i prefer to stay away from the napier 2nd ring. During normal street driving they can actually scrape too much oil off the cylinder walls which causes more wear. Racing engines can utilize the napier ring more effectively because they see continued high rpm which throws additional oil up on the cylinder walls. They're also very effective for engines using power adders where even small amounts of oil getting past the rings and into the chambers can wreak havoc. My decision on the napier second came from a few racers(Nascar included)that stated great things ESPECIALLY on street cars and apparently lots of new cars both import and domestic(Corvetts)run em 100`s of thousands of miles w/great results........either way. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: Piston ring recomendation? [Re: 451Mopar] #1374507 01/26/13 10:33 AM 01/26/13 10:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 413 Norway (old world) Oyvind Mopar mopar
Oyvind Mopar mopar Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 413 Norway (old world)	Quote: Thanks guys I may just reuse the rings I have. Only a few dozen 1/4 mile rounds and maybe 200 street miles on the engine, but somehow I managed to bend an oil ring (I think moving parts around T You can save some $$ and buy a set of such rings for one piston from 440Source (and maybe from others!) I did, after breaking a 2. ring! My

Re: Piston ring recomendation? [Re: Oyvind Mopar] #1374508 01/26/13 07:26 PM 01/26/13 07:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,409 Ont. Canada 10.90 Racer super street
10.90 Racer super street Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,409 Ont. Canada	Why don't you buy some .155 radial wall rings...... use the hastings oil rings...........

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