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My intentions are for daily driving and autox. So looking for strong bottom end and mid range torque. I want to be around 500hp/500torque
since its mostly for street, looking for realiablity. The Pump gas around here is 91octane so I would like to stick around a compression ratio that can run this.

Things I have:
its a 4 speed car with 3:55 gears with manual brakes -
--- OK but maybe 3.73's for autox?
headers I have have 1 3/4" primaries --- OK
I have 383 and 400 block 400 block is stronger, depending on the casting numbers even than a 440 block. use the FORGED 383 crank if you have one or get one. internally balanced + forged crank is better in the long run. then your flywheel and damper will be neutral balanced as well.

I have a performer rpm intake, - OK
mp performance water pump and housing - OK
milodon road race pan - OK
milodon oil pump - OK
750 holly DP OK great choick if clean / rebuilt
650 edelebrock carb
march pullys

--- ditch these below ----- sell and replace
mallory uniite distributor
firecore plug wires
Rev-N-nator electronic box
--- get rid of above ---

get an MSD 8386 - has ign built in, very dependable unit. easy to wire, requires no e-box at all

I'll be sticking with the low deck for reduced weight and works with my air grabber setup, and I have some of the parts already GOOD

1)I have seen the 470 and 451 kits available is there a difference in price to build if the kits are the same price? or should i go with a different combo/setup to get around the hp/torque i need? the more money saved the better! beware! if you get an eagle/scat crank kit make sure to have the crank blueprinted before you even install it. some of them are machined improperly from the factory with the ends of the journals rounded because of factory tooling... edges not cut sharply at the edges of the journals. dont just bolt in one of these cranks and try to run it. it has to be checked thoroughly. after that they will work fine.

2)looking at heads as well, looking at bare units and just buying the components I need to mactch the cam. Would you reccomend the eddy rpms or the stealths? my 400 is almost done gettting dyno'ed this week or next... here is what i went with. eddy rpms have the block zero decked first with KB240 pistons (if you dont do a stroker) then have the heads milled slightly to give you 10:1 comp ratio. should be about 500hp with my cam on street gas

3)cam choices - new to this dept but have an idea of what i want. Would like to get a hydraulic flat tappet for price and less constant adjusting needed. Would like to get something with a rough idle (I have manual brakes so I don't care about vaccum)with a rpm range from 1800/2000-6000. i'm just using an eddy rpm, however, if you have a forged crank and good oiling / rockers (i got harland sharp - use HV oil pump with these rockers by the way) ... you can go with a solid lifter setup which will go higher rpm's than hydraulics without valve float problems. hydraulic lifters if you go over about 6500 rpms they will float, especially since most are chinese now. if you plan on 7k rpms + you want solid lifters minimum or better yet a roller setup

4)Looking at ductile iron rockers (heard they are more dependable on the street than aluminum) isky no longer makes them who do you reccomend? get the good harland sharp set (not the new cheapy sets either) - just my opinion

Sorry for the long questions - just trying to get this build done right the first time!

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fwiw a roller camshaft has alot wider rpm range, and isn't nearly as lazy off the bottom, which would help you out of corners. I would think more cubes would be better too, as the extra torque will help out of corners also. There is a low deck 470 crank I seen in the for sale section for 500 bucks I think.

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A rough idle is over-rated. Never understood the fascination with that. Get a cam that will work. Nothing better than a stock idle and balls out performance. I'd call and have a custom cam ground for your application. If you want an off the shelf cam the VooDoo 533 is probably your best option. The 472 is a good way to go. They seem to run strong and are reliable. The 750DP would be best, intake is a good one as well.

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If it was me, for the same money and the same amount of work I would build a 512. 4.25 stroke, 6.53 rods and 1.32 compression height pistons in a 400 block. All of this is off the shelf parts and makes for a sweet engine.

Joe

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Wouldn't the 512 be overkill for what I'm doing with the car?

thanks again guys for the advice!

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If it was me, for the same money and the same amount of work I would build a 512. 4.25 stroke, 6.53 rods and 1.32 compression height pistons in a 400 block. All of this is off the shelf parts and makes for a sweet engine.

Joe

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Wouldn't the 512 be overkill for what I'm doing with the car?

thanks again guys for the advice!

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Can I ask you what you mean by “daily driver”? Are you going to drive this in bad weather or is it just going to hit the streets on nice weekends?
If it’s a weekend driver then, no it’s not overkill, you will have way too much fun. Plus, when/if you decide to go faster just change the top end, because the short block is already good to go.

Like I said earlier, it’s the exact same money to build a 512 if you are starting from scratch. In fact it’s even the SAME pistons used in both of the kits you mention.

Joe

PS I think everyone should own a 500+ CI engine at least once in their life.

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There is a low deck 470 crank I seen in the for sale section for 500 bucks I think.

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Hey Dan

Your goals are easily achievable

-470 rotating assembly with 10:1 compression
-MP 452 aluminum heads or RPM's (The 452's will work with your existing headers which are fine at that power level)
-Comp XS282S solid flat tappet cam (nitrided)
-EDM oiling lifters
-Crane or Isky Ductile iron rockers/Chromemoly pushrods

*the rest looks fine

This combo should make 525hp/550tq all day long with a big fat torque curve, run on pump gas and have a nice lopey idle


Ron


Ps. Here is a dyno sheet on one I helped with : 448ci RB build with RPM heads (unported) using the XS282S Comp solid. Runs fine on pump gas, idles at 850rpm with a nice rumpity idle and will boil the tires at will !

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Also... being its a street car and a stick, build
torque forget about the HP... build all the torque
you can.. a bigger ci engine normally makes torque
at a lower rpm so you dont have to spin it hard and
if you have the torque you have plenty of gear for
the street... the stick helps also since you can take
off at any rpm you wish

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I'm addicted to torque the more the better!

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The limiting factor on making power is usually the traction, if it spins the tires your going no where fast That being said with a decent to good set of tires I would put the biggest C,I, motor I could afford, it is a lot easier to drive a car with your right foot to control the pwer that it is to stick your arm out the window to help make power by pedaling your arm in the wind when you don't make enough power If it was me I would build a 511 or 512 out of the 400 block, I have several of those size motors and they flat rock Another option is a 505 C.I. 435 bore with a 4.250 stroke with BB Chevy rod journals, I like and use long rods, 6.8 and 6.7 long No matter what C.I. you decide to build make sure and use the BB Chevy rod journal sizes, 2.200 and a long rod The Edelbrock heads flow more air out of the box so comapre costs and decide. On the cam and headers I wouuld go big on the headers and exhaust, 2.0 inch primarys, 3.5 inch collectors and three inch exhaust to three inch in and out muffs I like the Magnaflow 14x7 x3 inch ovals, basically straight through and fairly quiet at idle and part thtrottle driving, not so at WOT On the cam I would, and have use the Comp Cams XL-HL cams, either the XE-285-HL or the bigger XE-295-HL, installed them 4 degrees advance or a liitle more On the rockers a lot of the ductile iron rockers won't be the advertised ratio, usually less when checked at the retainers I would, if you can afford it, buy the good Harland Sharp full roller aluminum rocker arms, not the cheaper extruded aluminum non roller shaft ones they now offer Make the compression ratio between 10.0 to 1 and 10.75 to 1 depending on the elevation you run the car in, in higher elevation run more compression Good luck

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If it was me, for the same money and the same amount of work I would build a 512. 4.25 stroke, 6.53 rods and 1.32 compression height pistons in a 400 block. All of this is off the shelf parts and makes for a sweet engine.

Joe

Can I ask you what you mean by “daily driver”? Are you going to drive this in bad weather or is it just going to hit the streets on nice weekends?
If it’s a weekend driver then, no it’s not overkill, you will have way too much fun. Plus, when/if you decide to go faster just change the top end, because the short block is already good to go.

Like I said earlier, it’s the exact same money to build a 512 if you are starting from scratch. In fact it’s even the SAME pistons used in both of the kits you mention.

Joe

PS I think everyone should own a 500+ CI engine at least once in their life.

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You need to watch out for air cleaner clearance wit hyour air grabber setup using anything other than a stock intake with a stock unmodified air cleaner assembly , you WILL have to modify it using the RPM intake.

Build a 470 , use 1 7/8 headers if possible

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i know i will have to mod the air cleaner about an 1" I was wondering if you are using the rpm heads, does it raise the deck height even more? I'm already gonna have to modify the airgrabber about a 1" and thats pushing the limit, I don't know if I'll be able to modify it if its more than that,

I'm gonna stick with the headers and exhaust for now, they are brand new in the box - bought them when I was gonna build a mild engine, and if i don't like the power i can always go to a bigger exhaust down the road.

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Also... being its a street car and a stick, build
torque forget about the HP... build all the torque
you can.. a bigger ci engine normally makes torque
at a lower rpm so you dont have to spin it hard and
if you have the torque you have plenty of gear for
the street... the stick helps also since you can take
off at any rpm you wish

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Build a 9:1 400 base aluminum head 496 and you can make your goals on 87 regular. Not sure if this will be the hot set up for an autoX but if compared to an all iron SB maybe not so bad.

My 440 based 493 came in at 8.97:1 and it makes 500hp/600ft/lbs all done by 5500 and it does fine on regular. Over 500 ft/lbs from 2000 to the end.

Kevin

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Build a 9:1 400 base aluminum head 496 and you can make your goals on 87 regular. Not sure if this will be the hot set up for an autoX but if compared to an all iron SB maybe not so bad.

My 440 based 493 came in at 8.97:1 and it makes 500hp/600ft/lbs all done by 5500 and it does fine on regular. Over 500 ft/lbs from 2000 to the end.

Kevin

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do you have the build specs for this?
I know its a loaded question but what all determines compression? i know your piston and heads help but I would love to get the numbers I want with low compression and running on 87 or 89 octane:)

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