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Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car #1366661
01/08/13 08:01 PM
01/08/13 08:01 PM
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mckinney texas
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shoebox Offline OP
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Im looking for the story about MP testing all the bb cams in the ssme
Car... Changed nothing but the cams and lifters and went faster every
Cam? Upto the 590? Where can i see it? Thanks!


74 dart sport 440 www.Csucarbs.com
Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: shoebox] #1366662
01/08/13 08:19 PM
01/08/13 08:19 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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You can see it the Mopar Engine manuel. You can get the manuel from mancini.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: shoebox] #1366663
01/08/13 08:58 PM
01/08/13 08:58 PM
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The Swamp
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agreed, should be in the MP Engine manuals. IIRC, Larry Shepard took a box stock 400 block and stuffed each one of the 'new' MP BB solids in a Duster. Early 80's Cars Illustrated Magazine, if I remember right..

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Sixpak] #1366664
01/08/13 09:00 PM
01/08/13 09:00 PM
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Prospect, PA
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Did the hydraulics too.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: shoebox] #1366665
01/08/13 09:50 PM
01/08/13 09:50 PM
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organ
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maximum entropy Offline
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yep, in the engine manual. it was an 8.5:1 400, or something like that. super low compression, and they said it went faster the bigger the cam, but we know that's always been true.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: maximum entropy] #1366666
01/08/13 09:52 PM
01/08/13 09:52 PM
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Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581 Offline
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2 versions of that test..one with the 400 at 8.5 compression and also at 10.0.


Nautilus Racing-
We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Chris2581] #1366667
01/08/13 11:26 PM
01/08/13 11:26 PM
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West Plains, MO
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My 1982 Direct Connection "B-RB Engine Racing Manual" shows just the 8.5:1 400 in a 3200# (less driver) Duster with 4.30 gears:

Stock Hyd 12.35 @ 110.27
Street Hemi 12.17 @ 112.60
.484 11.91 @ 115.30
.509 11.82 @ 116.61

but then later on they show the .509 as "baseline" with the same setup but .05 faster and 2 mph slower (11.77 @ 114.80), then:

.528 11.69 @ 115.90
.557 11.55 @ 117.05
.590 11.45 @ 118.00

So it did keep going quicker if not always faster

It would have been interesting if they'd kept going beyond anything "reasonable" for an 8.5:1 smogger right up to the .620 (and even the mushroom .654, which is only 4 deg more advertised duration, 316 vs. 312, but .034 more lift)...

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: DrCharles] #1366668
01/09/13 01:07 AM
01/09/13 01:07 AM
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Sport440 Offline
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Quote:

My 1982 Direct Connection "B-RB Engine Racing Manual" shows just the 8.5:1 400 in a 3200# (less driver) Duster with 4.30 gears:

Stock Hyd 12.35 @ 110.27
Street Hemi 12.17 @ 112.60
.484 11.91 @ 115.30
.509 11.82 @ 116.61

but then later on they show the .509 as "baseline" with the same setup but .05 faster and 2 mph slower (11.77 @ 114.80), then:

.528 11.69 @ 115.90
.557 11.55 @ 117.05
.590 11.45 @ 118.00

So it did keep going quicker if not always faster

It would have been interesting if they'd kept going beyond anything "reasonable" for an 8.5:1 smogger right up to the .620 (and even the mushroom .654, which is only 4 deg more advertised duration, 316 vs. 312, but .034 more lift)...






Good job, as these are the same numbers I have also. It should be noted that all ET numbers were with a 400 motor.


As a update, my 440 @ 10.5 comp and 3000# went 10.40,s with the 509 cam.

Another member had his 451 @ 11.1 comp and 3110# went 9.8?,s and better with the 590 cam.

The old MP cams can run the ET, the newer cams can too, but they can be a little more street friendly while running the same et. But a little les friendly on the valvetrain. Only difference IMO

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Sport440] #1366669
01/09/13 02:01 PM
01/09/13 02:01 PM
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Between a rock & a hard place
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My 1982 Direct Connection "B-RB Engine Racing Manual" shows just the 8.5:1 400 in a 3200# (less driver) Duster with 4.30 gears:

Stock Hyd 12.35 @ 110.27
Street Hemi 12.17 @ 112.60
.484 11.91 @ 115.30
.509 11.82 @ 116.61

Oh yea, I do reacll those articles. I know we're talking a back door factory built car (aka "a ringer"), but that is a HEALTHY 400!

Especially considering that I recall as it having a OE iron intake and a Thermo-slob carb.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: cudadoug] #1366670
01/09/13 02:55 PM
01/09/13 02:55 PM
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Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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Quote:


Oh yea, I do recall those articles. I know we're talking a back door factory built car (aka "a ringer"), but that is a HEALTHY 400!

Especially considering that I recall as it having a OE iron intake and a Thermo-slob carb.




No, it's a box stock 400 out of a Fury....


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: DrCharles] #1366671
01/09/13 04:49 PM
01/09/13 04:49 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:

My 1982 Direct Connection "B-RB Engine Racing Manual" shows just the 8.5:1 400 in a 3200# (less driver) Duster with 4.30 gears:

Stock Hyd 12.35 @ 110.27
Street Hemi 12.17 @ 112.60
.484 11.91 @ 115.30
.509 11.82 @ 116.61




They published that stuff right about the time I was building a new 383 for my '69 Super Bee. Based on all their data, I figured with the .484" cam, a fresh engine and 4.10s that the car would pick up big time from 14.4s @ 99 MPH w/ 3.23s and a seriously little cam. After all the "good stuff, it only ran 14.0s @ 101 MPH... guess it wasn't the cam.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: BradH] #1366672
01/09/13 05:52 PM
01/09/13 05:52 PM
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Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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I believe that 72 duster is the same car that Bill Bagshaw put the Famous 511 horse Car Craft 440 in. That car was basically a backed halfed (or severely narrowed) well-sorted race car.....no wonder it hooked and ran the ET'd it did


WIZE

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: BradH] #1366673
01/09/13 06:30 PM
01/09/13 06:30 PM
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Quote:

After all the "good stuff, it only ran 14.0s @ 101 MPH... guess it wasn't the cam.




My 69 RR ran low 13's at 105mph with a 284/484 MP hyd. cam. This was with 4.30 gears, slicks, 3600 lbs (with me in it ) and a TM6 single-plane intake.

I remember that article well about the Bill Bagshaw Duster. It was actually the 73/74 bodystyle and it made over 500 hp with big valve ironheads. It ran 10.80's with a 509 cam'd 440 if memory serves me right. They had a pic of him actually unloading groceries from a cart into the Duster in that article. It was in Hot Rod or PHR.


R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1366674
01/09/13 07:08 PM
01/09/13 07:08 PM
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mckinney texas
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shoebox Offline OP
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Its kiNda funny... The 590 has 106 lobe seperation ---"tighter"
Lsa's make more cyl pressure all else being equal----that 8.5cr motor
On paper is a terrible match up... But it Worked !

25 yrs ago or so when i built my first car ( chebby) i put a 292/108
Isky hyd cam in a 8.2 cr 350. It ran like a bat outta hell when it
Shouldnt have...no stall no gear. That 400 combo reminded me
Of when i was a kid!

Last edited by shoebox; 01/09/13 07:12 PM.

74 dart sport 440 www.Csucarbs.com
Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Streetwize] #1366675
01/09/13 11:30 PM
01/09/13 11:30 PM
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State of confusion
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Quote:

I believe that 72 duster is the same car that Bill Bagshaw put the Famous 511 horse Car Craft 440 in. That car was basically a backed halfed (or severely narrowed) well-sorted race car.....no wonder it hooked and ran the ET'd it did


Thank you....... Makes a difference for sure.

Last edited by Thumperdart; 01/09/13 11:31 PM.

72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Thumperdart] #1366676
01/10/13 02:03 AM
01/10/13 02:03 AM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I believe that 72 duster is the same car that Bill Bagshaw put the Famous 511 horse Car Craft 440 in. That car was basically a backed halfed (or severely narrowed) well-sorted race car.....no wonder it hooked and ran the ET'd it did


Thank you....... Makes a difference for sure.




Bagshaws car was a 74 Duster. The DC car and MP car was a 75 or so the article states.

There were indeed two different combos from the DC tests and the Mopar engine manuel tests.

DC tests installed the cams straight up and the MP tests installed every cam 2* advanced. The slick size also was different, one a 9" slick the other a 10" One had stock steel heads the other stage 4,s One weighed 3200# the other 3050#

These two cars both used a 8.25 rear end, and I doubt they were backhalved with that axel.



Bagshaws car did use 32" slicks so it was semi backhalfed or so I would assume. Bagshaws car weighed 3100# with the 440ci 509/511 HP tests, 10.82 ET.

With Editorial typos, Bagshaw could of ended up with the DC/MP car. The original DC car used a production vert, and I think Bagshaw used a 4500 vert.

Last edited by Sport440; 01/10/13 02:33 AM.
Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Sport440] #1366677
01/10/13 11:49 AM
01/10/13 11:49 AM
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Rescue CA.
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That article inspired me to try a low comp 440 build street and bracket pump gas car. 71 challenger Stock bore low comp with mp hyd 484 cam street dominator intake TQ carb auto trans 3.91 gears. ran 11.90s at 115mph. It was so simple and fun. Wish I never sold that car.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: joes68340s] #1366678
01/10/13 01:18 PM
01/10/13 01:18 PM
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Vista, California
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Kind of goes against the conventional wisdom you see online all the time about not putting too big a cam in your motor or else you will turn it into a dog.

Makes my want to try the MP 557 cam some day. Do the old MP grinds make less valve train racket than the newer more aggressive profiles?

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: 67Satty] #1366679
01/10/13 02:56 PM
01/10/13 02:56 PM
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Overpriced Housing Central
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And if they wound them forward more than 2 degrees, I'd bet most would ET even better!

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: RobX4406] #1366680
01/10/13 03:06 PM
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That deal can be very deceiving, that 400 would be a total dog except it had the high stall converter and 4.30 gears to make up for the complete lack of bottom end power. In my opinion neither of those things should be considered street friendly. Put a more street friendly 2000 stall 3.23 gear in it and as proven by the low compression 440 example running low 14s it would not be near that quick. That is where the modern cams have a huge advantage, they can make a low compression motor build enough cylinder pressure and still flow enough air past the valve to make it street friendly AND fast.


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