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Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car #1366661 01/08/13 08:01 PM 01/08/13 08:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 808 mckinney texas S shoebox OP super stock
shoebox OP super stock S Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 808 mckinney texas	Im looking for the story about MP testing all the bb cams in the ssme Car... Changed nothing but the cams and lifters and went faster every Cam? Upto the 590? Where can i see it? Thanks! 74 dart sport 440 www.Csucarbs.com

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: shoebox] #1366662 01/08/13 08:19 PM 01/08/13 08:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio S Sport440 master
Sport440 master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio	You can see it the Mopar Engine manuel. You can get the manuel from mancini.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: shoebox] #1366663 01/08/13 08:58 PM 01/08/13 08:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,840 The Swamp S Sixpak master
Sixpak master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,840 The Swamp	agreed, should be in the MP Engine manuals. IIRC, Larry Shepard took a box stock 400 block and stuffed each one of the 'new' MP BB solids in a Duster. Early 80's Cars Illustrated Magazine, if I remember right..

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Sixpak] #1366664 01/08/13 09:00 PM 01/08/13 09:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,313 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,313 Prospect, PA	Did the hydraulics too.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: shoebox] #1366665 01/08/13 09:50 PM 01/08/13 09:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,080 organ M maximum entropy master
maximum entropy master M Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,080 organ	yep, in the engine manual. it was an 8.5:1 400, or something like that. super low compression, and they said it went faster the bigger the cam, but we know that's always been true. for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: maximum entropy] #1366666 01/08/13 09:52 PM 01/08/13 09:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,531 Jacksonville, FL Chris2581 master
Chris2581 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,531 Jacksonville, FL	2 versions of that test..one with the 400 at 8.5 compression and also at 10.0. Nautilus Racing- We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Chris2581] #1366667 01/08/13 11:26 PM 01/08/13 11:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO DrCharles master
DrCharles master Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO	My 1982 Direct Connection "B-RB Engine Racing Manual" shows just the 8.5:1 400 in a 3200# (less driver) Duster with 4.30 gears: Stock Hyd 12.35 @ 110.27 Street Hemi 12.17 @ 112.60 .484 11.91 @ 115.30 .509 11.82 @ 116.61 but then later on they show the .509 as "baseline" with the same setup but .05 faster and 2 mph slower (11.77 @ 114.80), then: .528 11.69 @ 115.90 .557 11.55 @ 117.05 .590 11.45 @ 118.00 So it did keep going quicker if not always faster It would have been interesting if they'd kept going beyond anything "reasonable" for an 8.5:1 smogger right up to the .620 (and even the mushroom .654, which is only 4 deg more advertised duration, 316 vs. 312, but .034 more lift)...

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: DrCharles] #1366668 01/09/13 01:07 AM 01/09/13 01:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio S Sport440 master
Sport440 master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio	Quote: My 1982 Direct Connection "B-RB Engine Racing Manual" shows just the 8.5:1 400 in a 3200# (less driver) Duster with 4.30 gears: Stock Hyd 12.35 @ 110.27 Street Hemi 12.17 @ 112.60 .484 11.91 @ 115.30 .509 11.82 @ 116.61 but then later on they show the .509 as "baseline" with the same setup but .05 faster and 2 mph slower (11.77 @ 114.80), then: .528 11.69 @ 115.90 .557 11.55 @ 117.05 .590 11.45 @ 118.00 So it did keep going quicker if not always faster It would have been interesting if they'd kept going beyond anything "reasonable" for an 8.5:1 smogger right up to the .620 (and even the mushroom .654, which is only 4 deg more advertised duration, 316 vs. 312, but .034 more lift)... Good job, as these are the same numbers I have also. It should be noted that all ET numbers were with a 400 motor. As a update, my 440 @ 10.5 comp and 3000# went 10.40,s with the 509 cam. Another member had his 451 @ 11.1 comp and 3110# went 9.8?,s and better with the 590 cam. The old MP cams can run the ET, the newer cams can too, but they can be a little more street friendly while running the same et. But a little les friendly on the valvetrain. Only difference IMO

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Sport440] #1366669 01/09/13 02:01 PM 01/09/13 02:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,245 Between a rock & a hard place C cudadoug master
cudadoug master C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,245 Between a rock & a hard place	My 1982 Direct Connection "B-RB Engine Racing Manual" shows just the 8.5:1 400 in a 3200# (less driver) Duster with 4.30 gears: Stock Hyd 12.35 @ 110.27 Street Hemi 12.17 @ 112.60 .484 11.91 @ 115.30 .509 11.82 @ 116.61 Oh yea, I do reacll those articles. I know we're talking a back door factory built car (aka "a ringer"), but that is a HEALTHY 400! Especially considering that I recall as it having a OE iron intake and a Thermo-slob carb.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: cudadoug] #1366670 01/09/13 02:55 PM 01/09/13 02:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,175 Park Forest, IL slantzilla Too Many Posts
slantzilla Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,175 Park Forest, IL	Quote: Oh yea, I do recall those articles. I know we're talking a back door factory built car (aka "a ringer"), but that is a HEALTHY 400! Especially considering that I recall as it having a OE iron intake and a Thermo-slob carb. No, it's a box stock 400 out of a Fury.... "Everybody funny, now you funny too."

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: DrCharles] #1366671 01/09/13 04:49 PM 01/09/13 04:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH Taking time off to work on my car
BradH Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Quote: My 1982 Direct Connection "B-RB Engine Racing Manual" shows just the 8.5:1 400 in a 3200# (less driver) Duster with 4.30 gears: Stock Hyd 12.35 @ 110.27 Street Hemi 12.17 @ 112.60 .484 11.91 @ 115.30 .509 11.82 @ 116.61 They published that stuff right about the time I was building a new 383 for my '69 Super Bee. Based on all their data, I figured with the .484" cam, a fresh engine and 4.10s that the car would pick up big time from 14.4s @ 99 MPH w/ 3.23s and a seriously little cam. After all the "good stuff, it only ran 14.0s @ 101 MPH... guess it wasn't the cam.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: BradH] #1366672 01/09/13 05:52 PM 01/09/13 05:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,872 Weddington, N.C. Streetwize master
Streetwize master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,872 Weddington, N.C.	I believe that 72 duster is the same car that Bill Bagshaw put the Famous 511 horse Car Craft 440 in. That car was basically a backed halfed (or severely narrowed) well-sorted race car.....no wonder it hooked and ran the ET'd it did WIZE World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI In Car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: BradH] #1366673 01/09/13 06:30 PM 01/09/13 06:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,937 Holly/MI D Dean_Kuzluzski master
Dean_Kuzluzski master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,937 Holly/MI	Quote: After all the "good stuff, it only ran 14.0s @ 101 MPH... guess it wasn't the cam. My 69 RR ran low 13's at 105mph with a 284/484 MP hyd. cam. This was with 4.30 gears, slicks, 3600 lbs (with me in it ) and a TM6 single-plane intake. I remember that article well about the Bill Bagshaw Duster. It was actually the 73/74 bodystyle and it made over 500 hp with big valve ironheads. It ran 10.80's with a 509 cam'd 440 if memory serves me right. They had a pic of him actually unloading groceries from a cart into the Duster in that article. It was in Hot Rod or PHR. R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1366674 01/09/13 07:08 PM 01/09/13 07:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 808 mckinney texas S shoebox OP super stock
shoebox OP super stock S Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 808 mckinney texas	Its kiNda funny... The 590 has 106 lobe seperation ---"tighter" Lsa's make more cyl pressure all else being equal----that 8.5cr motor On paper is a terrible match up... But it Worked ! 25 yrs ago or so when i built my first car ( chebby) i put a 292/108 Isky hyd cam in a 8.2 cr 350. It ran like a bat outta hell when it Shouldnt have...no stall no gear. That 400 combo reminded me Of when i was a kid! Last edited by shoebox; 01/09/13 07:12 PM. 74 dart sport 440 www.Csucarbs.com

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Streetwize] #1366675 01/09/13 11:30 PM 01/09/13 11:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion	Quote: I believe that 72 duster is the same car that Bill Bagshaw put the Famous 511 horse Car Craft 440 in. That car was basically a backed halfed (or severely narrowed) well-sorted race car.....no wonder it hooked and ran the ET'd it did Thank you....... Makes a difference for sure. Last edited by Thumperdart; 01/09/13 11:31 PM. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Thumperdart] #1366676 01/10/13 02:03 AM 01/10/13 02:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio S Sport440 master
Sport440 master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio	Quote: Quote: I believe that 72 duster is the same car that Bill Bagshaw put the Famous 511 horse Car Craft 440 in. That car was basically a backed halfed (or severely narrowed) well-sorted race car.....no wonder it hooked and ran the ET'd it did Thank you....... Makes a difference for sure. Bagshaws car was a 74 Duster. The DC car and MP car was a 75 or so the article states. There were indeed two different combos from the DC tests and the Mopar engine manuel tests. DC tests installed the cams straight up and the MP tests installed every cam 2* advanced. The slick size also was different, one a 9" slick the other a 10" One had stock steel heads the other stage 4,s One weighed 3200# the other 3050# These two cars both used a 8.25 rear end, and I doubt they were backhalved with that axel. Bagshaws car did use 32" slicks so it was semi backhalfed or so I would assume. Bagshaws car weighed 3100# with the 440ci 509/511 HP tests, 10.82 ET. With Editorial typos, Bagshaw could of ended up with the DC/MP car. The original DC car used a production vert, and I think Bagshaw used a 4500 vert. Last edited by Sport440; 01/10/13 02:33 AM.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Sport440] #1366677 01/10/13 11:49 AM 01/10/13 11:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 463 Rescue CA. joes68340s mopar
joes68340s mopar Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 463 Rescue CA.	That article inspired me to try a low comp 440 build street and bracket pump gas car. 71 challenger Stock bore low comp with mp hyd 484 cam street dominator intake TQ carb auto trans 3.91 gears. ran 11.90s at 115mph. It was so simple and fun. Wish I never sold that car.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: joes68340s] #1366678 01/10/13 01:18 PM 01/10/13 01:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California 6 67Satty pro stock
67Satty pro stock 6 Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California	Kind of goes against the conventional wisdom you see online all the time about not putting too big a cam in your motor or else you will turn it into a dog. Makes my want to try the MP 557 cam some day. Do the old MP grinds make less valve train racket than the newer more aggressive profiles?

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: 67Satty] #1366679 01/10/13 02:56 PM 01/10/13 02:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	And if they wound them forward more than 2 degrees, I'd bet most would ET even better!

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: RobX4406] #1366680 01/10/13 03:06 PM 01/10/13 03:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	That deal can be very deceiving, that 400 would be a total dog except it had the high stall converter and 4.30 gears to make up for the complete lack of bottom end power. In my opinion neither of those things should be considered street friendly. Put a more street friendly 2000 stall 3.23 gear in it and as proven by the low compression 440 example running low 14s it would not be near that quick. That is where the modern cams have a huge advantage, they can make a low compression motor build enough cylinder pressure and still flow enough air past the valve to make it street friendly AND fast. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Sport440] #1366681 01/11/13 05:56 PM 01/11/13 05:56 PM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 461 Hinterland SE Qld Aust S SG duster mopar
SG duster mopar S Joined: May 2009 Posts: 461 Hinterland SE Qld Aust	from memory I was of the understandig Bill Bagshaw used a 3800 J converter, it was the hot ticket of the times

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: shoebox] #1366682 01/12/13 05:29 AM 01/12/13 05:29 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	A friend ran a low compression 400 with a fairly large cam, and it ran good. The car also had an 8" converter, and 4.88:1 gears, so it's not a dog when operating at 4,000+ RPM Reminds me of Mopar Muscles' 400 HP 318 with no dyno numbers below 3,000 RPM, but at 3,000 RPM torque was 332, and jumped 44 ft/lbs to 376 @ 3,500 RPM?

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: 451Mopar] #1366683 02/09/13 03:30 PM 02/09/13 03:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC 4 446acuda master
446acuda master 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC	Here is the article from Hi Performance Cars magazine published some time in '78. If these aren't clear enough then I will scan it and repost. The right mouse key isn't working here at the library so I can't rotate the pictures. 7581547-DSC04922.JPG (152 downloads)

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: 446acuda] #1366684 02/09/13 03:33 PM 02/09/13 03:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC 4 446acuda master
446acuda master 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC	2 7581549-DSC04923.JPG (120 downloads)

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: 446acuda] #1366685 02/09/13 03:33 PM 02/09/13 03:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC 4 446acuda master
446acuda master 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC	3 7581550-DSC04924.JPG (79 downloads)

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: 446acuda] #1366686 02/09/13 03:34 PM 02/09/13 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC 4 446acuda master
446acuda master 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC	4 7581551-DSC04925.JPG (90 downloads)

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: 446acuda] #1366687 02/12/13 09:11 PM 02/12/13 09:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,449 nc E earthmover top fuel
earthmover top fuel E Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,449 nc	nice read..

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: earthmover] #1366688 02/13/13 01:36 PM 02/13/13 01:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,682 Philadelphia R radar top fuel
radar top fuel R Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,682 Philadelphia	Haven't read about 50' times too much lately! When did the 60' become the standard measure of launch quickness? Good read but is this the article the OP was talking about? I was hoping to see the .557 cam but the spring pack they used couldn't handle it.

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: radar] #1366689 02/26/13 07:29 PM 02/26/13 07:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC 4 446acuda master
446acuda master 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC	Here is a scanned version for easier reading (even though it is the wrong article ) 7604542-DCduster.PDF (291 downloads)

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: 446acuda] #1366690 02/26/13 09:04 PM 02/26/13 09:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada R RUNCHARGER I Live Here
RUNCHARGER I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada	I took those articles as gospel in the day. Today, not so much. Sheldon

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: 67Satty] #1366691 02/28/13 07:27 PM 02/28/13 07:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,080 organ M maximum entropy master
maximum entropy master M Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,080 organ	Quote: Makes my want to try the MP 557 cam some day. Do the old MP grinds make less valve train racket than the newer more aggressive profiles? i had a 557 in my scamp for a while. the clatter was UNBELIEVABLE. it didn't matter how tight i ran it. i put a 509 in, and the car is way lopier, quieter, and faster. for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: 446acuda] #1366692 03/01/13 07:42 PM 03/01/13 07:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,937 Holly/MI D Dean_Kuzluzski master
Dean_Kuzluzski master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,937 Holly/MI	446acuda, THANKS so much for scanning that article. It made it much easier for me to read! That is such a cool combo. You can really tell where the aftermarket parts were directed to at that time. Lots of production/used parts that were readily available on a budget got into the mix. An 8&1/4 rearend with an 11 sec motor!! Cast iron intake, factory converter, a TQ, and the old garden variety (used to hold up your tomato plant) MP 484 and 509 bumpsticks!! Doesn't seem like anyone would dare to leave home with a set-up like that today! Got a similar pkg to pull together for a J-body here at the moment. Last edited by Dean_Kuzluzski; 03/01/13 07:44 PM. R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04

Re: Article where they ran all the MP cams in the same car [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1366693 03/02/13 01:17 AM 03/02/13 01:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,255 Canada WO23Coronet master
WO23Coronet master Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,255 Canada	This is the direction I'm going with my 67 Coronet: smog 400, ported stock heads heavily milled for some compression, 509 cam, M1 single plane, 4.10 gears and a hi stall. Cheap way to get a decently quick car Last edited by WO23Coronet; 03/02/13 01:58 AM.

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