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Diff Set-up question??? #1363229 01/02/13 04:55 PM 01/02/13 04:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,010 Sac, CA M mopowers OP master
mopowers OP master M Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,010 Sac, CA	I'm getting ready to start assembly of my 489 case diff. I have the solid spacer/shims for setting pinion bearing preload. Is this something I can do first, since I may have to trial and error the pinion depth a bit to get it right? Will dis-assembly to change the pinion depth shims impact the pinion bearing preload once I have that where I want it??? Or is it better to make sure the pinion depth is correct before attempting to figure out the shim pack for pinion bearing preload? Lastly, does the pinion nut need to be torqued fully to take a pinion bearing preload measurement?

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: mopowers] #1363230 01/02/13 07:51 PM 01/02/13 07:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,017 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,017 U.S.S.A.	Quote: I'm getting ready to start assembly of my 489 case diff. I have the solid spacer/shims for setting pinion bearing preload. Is this something I can do first, since I may have to trial and error the pinion depth a bit to get it right? Will dis-assembly to change the pinion depth shims impact the pinion bearing preload once I have that where I want it??? Or is it better to make sure the pinion depth is correct before attempting to figure out the shim pack for pinion bearing preload? The pinion preload will not change because the bearings preload is the distance between the the inner race of the 2 bearings which is determined by the spacer ... that distance is not affected by the pinion depth. If it were a 742 you would set preload after you set the pinion depth. 741 has a spacer that I'm 99.9% sure pushes against the inner bearing race like the 489 crush sleeve. Quote: Lastly, does the pinion nut need to be torqued fully to take a pinion bearing preload measurement? YES

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: JohnRR] #1363231 01/02/13 08:06 PM 01/02/13 08:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,010 Sac, CA M mopowers OP master
mopowers OP master M Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,010 Sac, CA	So, basically it's ok to set pinion bearing preload first??? It just seems bass ackwards to set everything else first, then take it apart to set pinion bearing preload, only to reinstall the carrier and re-set the backlash/carrier bearing preload with the spinning adjusters. ya know???

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: mopowers] #1363232 01/02/13 08:41 PM 01/02/13 08:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,017 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,017 U.S.S.A.	Quote: So, basically it's ok to set pinion bearing preload first??? It just seems bass ackwards to set everything else first, then take it apart to set pinion bearing preload, only to reinstall the carrier and re-set the backlash/carrier bearing preload with the spinning adjusters. ya know??? The problem with the 489 is because the crush sleeve goes in from the pinion head end and the crush sleeve is a one time use part. The factory uses different tools to set the gears that basically tell the assembler what shim to use and it's pretty much spot on best I can figure. The 741 and 742 shims and stuff go in from the yoke end so it's not such a big deal.

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: mopowers] #1363233 01/02/13 09:04 PM 01/02/13 09:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 491 B BLACKHEMIRR mopar
BLACKHEMIRR mopar B Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 491	Aren't the pinion bearing (for pinion depth) shims in a 489 case between the case and the outer bearing race? I can't remember if they're between the bearing and the gear, or between the outer race and case. If they're between the race and the case, then they will affect the bearing preload. It might be better to install the pinion without the spacer, tighten the pinion nut until you have the right bearing preload, set your pinion depth as necessary, then reassemble with the spacer and then set up the pinion bearing preload shims. Or if I'm wrong about where the shims are, just ignore everything I just said.

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: BLACKHEMIRR] #1363234 01/02/13 09:09 PM 01/02/13 09:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Quote: Aren't the pinion bearing (for pinion depth) shims in a 489 case between the case and the outer bearing race? I can't remember if they're between the bearing and the gear, or between the outer race and case. If they're between the race and the case, then they will affect the bearing preload. It might be better to install the pinion without the spacer, tighten the pinion nut until you have the right bearing preload, set your pinion depth as necessary, then reassemble with the spacer and then set up the pinion bearing preload shims. Or if I'm wrong about where the shims are, just ignore everything I just said. Shims on 8.75 are between the pinion gear & the bearing race.... So pinion bearing preload can be set before setting pinion depth & as John said yes you must fully torque the pinion when setting preload.. "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: mopowers] #1363235 01/02/13 09:24 PM 01/02/13 09:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 491 B BLACKHEMIRR mopar
BLACKHEMIRR mopar B Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 491	Thanks for the recalibration of my memory. It's the Danas that have the shims behind the outer race. Next time I'll brush-up before I chime-in.

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: mopowers] #1363236 01/02/13 10:57 PM 01/02/13 10:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,190 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,190 Bend,OR USA	Set the pinion depth before setting the pinion bearing preload Make sure the pinion bearing preload is more(tighter) than it should be when setting the pinion depth Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1363237 01/02/13 11:19 PM 01/02/13 11:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,861 Pattison Texas CSK master
CSK master Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,861 Pattison Texas	Quote: Set the pinion depth before setting the pinion bearing preload Make sure the pinion bearing preload is more(tighter) than it should be when setting the pinion depth cab is correct ,you HAVE to set pinion depth 1st,then preload 1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: CSK] #1363238 01/02/13 11:29 PM 01/02/13 11:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,010 Sac, CA M mopowers OP master
mopowers OP master M Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,010 Sac, CA	Quote: Quote: Set the pinion depth before setting the pinion bearing preload Make sure the pinion bearing preload is more(tighter) than it should be when setting the pinion depth cab is correct ,you HAVE to set pinion depth 1st,then preload Why is that? If using a solid spacer (which I am) and shims, Once I set the pinion preload, would it change once I start adding or subtracting depth shims under the inner pinion bearing. I would tend to think it would stay the same. I'll be using a dummy set-up bearing for depth btw.

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: mopowers] #1363239 01/03/13 12:13 AM 01/03/13 12:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,190 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,190 Bend,OR USA	Why change the prelaod shims 88 times when you can do it once or twice Are you using a pinion depth tool or doing it off of the pattern? Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1363240 01/03/13 12:22 AM 01/03/13 12:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,010 Sac, CA M mopowers OP master
mopowers OP master M Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,010 Sac, CA	Stupid question time. Do you need to pull the pinion too change the preload shims when using a solid spacer in the 489 case?

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: mopowers] #1363241 01/03/13 12:26 AM 01/03/13 12:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,861 Pattison Texas CSK master
CSK master Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,861 Pattison Texas	it depends how tight the outer bearing is on the pinion gear 1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: BLACKHEMIRR] #1363242 01/03/13 12:34 AM 01/03/13 12:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,017 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,017 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Thanks for the recalibration of my memory. It's the Danas that have the shims behind the outer race. Next time I'll brush-up before I chime-in. I foggily remember taking apart a 489 that had them under the race once .

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: mopowers] #1363243 01/03/13 12:36 AM 01/03/13 12:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,017 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,017 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Stupid question time. Do you need to pull the pinion too change the preload shims when using a solid spacer in the 489 case? As said it depends on how tight the outer bearing fits on the pinion stem , BUT the shims go between the outer bearing and the spacer so you shouldn't have to.

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: mopowers] #1363244 01/03/13 12:38 AM 01/03/13 12:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,017 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,017 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: Quote: Set the pinion depth before setting the pinion bearing preload Make sure the pinion bearing preload is more(tighter) than it should be when setting the pinion depth cab is correct ,you HAVE to set pinion depth 1st,then preload Why is that? If using a solid spacer (which I am) and shims, Once I set the pinion preload, would it change once I start adding or subtracting depth shims under the inner pinion bearing. I would tend to think it would stay the same. I'll be using a dummy set-up bearing for depth btw. the preload is set with the spacer between the 2 bearings and nothing else , once it's set correctly it never changes no matter how many times you change the depth shim.

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: JohnRR] #1363245 01/03/13 12:45 AM 01/03/13 12:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,872 connecticut pnypwr master
pnypwr master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,872 connecticut	you cant set preload on a dummy bearing, the rotational torque will be different between a new bearing and old, set your depth, dissassemble set your preload. the carrier is not installed when checking preload on the pinion. then install the carrier, set your backlash and check the pattern again. all 8 3/4s ive ever been in shim the pinion under the bearing, every dana except the 35 shims the pinion under the race, either way will work, "Are you gonna bark all day lil doggy? Or are you gonna bite?" 05 ram 2500 ctd 74 gremlin x 360 65 mustang 347 70 coronet R/T 440 03 Mach 1

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: pnypwr] #1363246 01/03/13 01:14 AM 01/03/13 01:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,010 Sac, CA M mopowers OP master
mopowers OP master M Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,010 Sac, CA	Quote: you cant set preload on a dummy bearing, the rotational torque will be different between a new bearing and old, set your depth, dissassemble set your preload. the carrier is not installed when checking preload on the pinion. then install the carrier, set your backlash and check the pattern again. all 8 3/4s ive ever been in shim the pinion under the bearing, every dana except the 35 shims the pinion under the race, either way will work, Re-read my post. I said I'll be using a dummy bearing for setting DEPTH. I don't have a depth gauge, so I'll be setting it by pattern, which means I'll likely have to take it apart a bunch of times. Seems to me that you can do it either way. Preload first, or depth first. Does it really matter???

Re: Diff Set-up question??? [Re: mopowers] #1363247 01/03/13 01:17 AM 01/03/13 01:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,190 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,190 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Stupid question time. Do you need to pull the pinion too change the preload shims when using a solid spacer in the 489 case? No, I put the little pinion shims between the front pinon bearing and the pinion spacer to set the pinion bearing preload Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

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