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Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: superbeeman69] #1359197
12/26/12 04:32 PM
12/26/12 04:32 PM
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Howell,MI
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Moparpoor Offline
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For the money you are going to spend on a prebent cage you can buy the basic equipment to bend your own.You will still need a tubing bender to adjust bars as needed.You will be making changes to the cage.Check out woodward fab it is basic stuff,stuff I started with.It will handle the work load of any DIY builder!

Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: Moparpoor] #1359198
12/26/12 05:40 PM
12/26/12 05:40 PM
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North Cackilacky
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sdaurity Offline
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Fixing to start a 25.3 69 charger in a few weeks. My A-body is a 25.3. And done quite a few mustangs but no big cars yet. Good luck.


One day I will have something cool here.
Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: sdaurity] #1359199
12/26/12 06:45 PM
12/26/12 06:45 PM
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Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
ProStDodge Offline
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I know on my 70 RoadRunner/Superbird chassis The original chassis shop wanted to place the main hoop Back far enough to weld the 4-link brackets too. But because of the wheel base, this would mean I either moved the rear wheels forward 10" or I drive from the back seat.



So instead he had to build it more like a ProStock truck, with the rear suspension mounts on an extended frame. This move the main hoop forward enough I could use a "figure c" style funny car cage which permits the drivers head to be partially under the main hoop.









Here is a pic (figure A style) with driver head in front of hoop, but with the suspension moved back for longer wheelbase car.








An A or E body car can have the suspension on braces in the main hoop area (sorry Camaro pic was only reference I could find - Pretend its a Cuda)







I HIGHLY doubt you can get a "nice" 25.3 cage for a B-body completely pre-bent. I would think you would need some type of tubing bender for at least a few places to insure a proper fit.

For the record, I second the nomination for have RJ Racecars build your chassis. I went with "a friend" and got screwed. For $9000 (2-1/2 years later)I got back a chassis that won't certify and has none of the welds done on the bottom. I will NEVER take anything back to "Cartel llc." For about the same money I could have have RJ or Adkins racecars build me a top sportsman chassis.

Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: superbeeman69] #1359200
12/26/12 07:03 PM
12/26/12 07:03 PM
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:



Now who else sells 25.x moly chassis kits? I've always worked with s&W but their 25.3 chassis kit only works for chargers and correct me if I'm wrong but coronets/satellites have a shorter wheelbase do they not? That's alot of bars needing work before they can be fitted. Any suggestions? The above pics of the 71 B body must've had issues too. I know the kit for the Camaro I did needed alot if modifying but I thought that was more because of the stupid stock subframe up front.




Charger and coronet have the same wheelbase , longer than the satellite by 1/2" , that 1/2" is in the front hanger for the rear springs ... and obviously the rear quarters and wheelhouses ...

Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: ProStDodge] #1359201
12/26/12 07:15 PM
12/26/12 07:15 PM
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Howell,MI
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Yes you have to build a rear sub frame with these cars.It creates alot more work than an a-body.You would think with a bigger car it would be easier to work on.Just the opposite do to all the extra tubing for the back half.If you do a stock suspension it would make it alot easier.I doubt you could utilize the cert with stock back half in a b-body.

Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: Moparpoor] #1359202
12/26/12 07:33 PM
12/26/12 07:33 PM
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Quote:

I doubt you could utilize the cert with stock back half in a b-body.




The actual "certification" is only for the drivers compartment area and main hoop supports. The type, style, or location of the suspension is not part of the certification process. So, yes you could use stock front and rear suspension. But then it kinda makes the need for 25.3 chassis a moot point, as I think it would be quite difficult to run faster than 7.50 on stock suspension!

And Moparpoor - I would really like to see some more of your 71! (I miss mine!)

Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: ProStDodge] #1359203
12/26/12 07:53 PM
12/26/12 07:53 PM
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That was my point exactly!

Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: Moparpoor] #1359204
12/27/12 12:16 AM
12/27/12 12:16 AM
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Posts: 454
Ashville, Manitoba, Canada
superbeeman69 Offline OP
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Is there an amendum by SFI for that rear subframe portion? Yes or no will suffice since the post with the SFI copywriting has already been taken down.

Those that have been here before check this out.

http://www.martzchassis.net/our-products/front-independent-suspension/chrysler-a-amp-b-body

Could this be used since I want to retain my original floors and rails and go 4 link? I'm begining to think I'm in unchartered waters here keeping so much of the original car. Yes it will be hard to campaign against other cars but I can always lighten it up more if I choose to. From a suspension standpoint, does the rear subframe play a role? Fuel cell placement will need to be more thought out, but on the other hand the rear sub is great for mounting the 'schutes.

Last edited by superbeeman69; 12/27/12 04:44 PM.

1970 FM3 Coronet 440, 1971 FJ6 Dude D100
Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: superbeeman69] #1359205
12/27/12 01:36 AM
12/27/12 01:36 AM
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Posts: 454
Ashville, Manitoba, Canada
superbeeman69 Offline OP
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Prostreetdodge, do you have other angles of that CAD drawing?

Been thinking a little more about my possible rear suspension choices. I'd like to go the 4 link route but I also want to retain as much of the original car as possible including the floors and rails. In theory I could use this weld in Martz kit and still do the 25.3 cage, independent of one another correct? Or I could also go the Calvert route too. John is a super nice guy and with his record holding parts (7.24@200) I think a strong argument could be had between Calvert parts and a 4 link made my whoever.

Last edited by superbeeman69; 12/27/12 02:40 AM.

1970 FM3 Coronet 440, 1971 FJ6 Dude D100
Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: superbeeman69] #1359206
12/27/12 04:32 PM
12/27/12 04:32 PM
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Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
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Quote:

Prostreetdodge, do you have other angles of that CAD drawing?

Been thinking a little more about my possible rear suspension choices. I'd like to go the 4 link route but I also want to retain as much of the original car as possible including the floors and rails. In theory I could use this weld in Martz kit and still do the 25.3 cage, independent of one another correct? Or I could also go the Calvert route too. John is a super nice guy and with his record holding parts (7.24@200) I think a strong argument could be had between Calvert parts and a 4 link made my whoever.




That was an image I found on a Google search. I think it was from one of the chassis kit companies (Jerry Bickel I think).

Since there is no spec on suspension, yes you can run stock front and rear frame rails. I kept my front frame rails (cut off the pinch weld flange and re-welded for a cleaner look) and installed an Alter-K-ation front end.

The SFI spec is for safety, so it pertains to the portion of the car which protects the driver in case of an incident. The faster and heavier the car, the more bars needed.

I plan on using mine as a street/strip toy, so I am basically doing a 25.5 cage. But, I am leaving out the funny car portion at the moment. The car will still pass to 8.50. And if someone else wants to buy it and make it faster, it will take very little to cert to 7.50. (basically the forward portion of the funny car cage). I have been 8.50 in a door car. I don't need to go faster.

What motor are you planning on using to need a chassis that fast?

And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but there is no way you are going to keep or reinstall a "stock" floor pan in the car once you have a 25.3 cage in it.

Scott

7520669-P1030258a.jpg (823 downloads)
Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: ProStDodge] #1359207
12/27/12 05:58 PM
12/27/12 05:58 PM
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Howell,MI
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Why can't you keep the stock floor?Their is no added bars between 25.5 and 25.3 in the floor area.Actually by keeping the stock floor you eliminate the use of #4 and #8 bars.Three major differences between 25.5 and 25.3.First 25.3 is all chromoly round tube or recently updated docol r8.25.5 can be eaither mild or 4130.Second 25.3 requires roof x brace #37 bars.25.5 requires only one diagnol #37.Third 25.3 requires multiple 1"diameter gussets at multiple given points.25.5 does not require.
Now will you have to drill some holes in the floor,yes!You will drill holes in the floor for the pillar bars and main hoop to intersect your #6 an #1 bars.Retaining the stock floor does require more effort usually.

Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: Moparpoor] #1359208
12/27/12 06:13 PM
12/27/12 06:13 PM
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North Cackilacky
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Quote:

Why can't you keep the stock floor?Their is no added bars between 25.5 and 25.3 in the floor area.Actually by keeping the stock floor you eliminate the use of #4 and #8 bars.Three major differences between 25.5 and 25.3.First 25.3 is all chromoly round tube or recently updated docol r8.25.5 can be eaither mild or 4130.Second 25.3 requires roof x brace #37 bars.25.5 requires only one diagnol #37.Third 25.3 requires multiple 1"diameter gussets at multiple given points.25.5 does not require.
Now will you have to drill some holes in the floor,yes!You will drill holes in the floor for the pillar bars and main hoop to intersect your #6 an #1 bars.Retaining the stock floor does require more effort usually.






There are quite a few size differences in a 25.5 and a 25.3. There are a few bars that can be left out of a 25.3 if you have a stock floor pan but why would you build a 25.3 and not have more bars in the floor and an x in the tunnel? I put a few bars extra and a few up sized from the spec to where I would feel comfortable in the car going as fast as the cert will allow.


One day I will have something cool here.
Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: sdaurity] #1359209
12/27/12 06:32 PM
12/27/12 06:32 PM
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The only major tube size differences are the dash bar and on 25.5 passenger side bars are allowed to be smaller.I just went through the specs side by side.

As for leaving bars out in the floor.What do you think you gain by having those bars.SFI even allows for the factory torsion bar crossmember to substitute for #6c on 67-69 dart and cudas!

Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: Moparpoor] #1359210
12/27/12 07:27 PM
12/27/12 07:27 PM
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sdaurity Offline
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I put emough bars in it to where if I took a lick in it running over 200 mph I would feel safe. I know it will pass with less, but it just makes me feel better sitting in it I guess is the best answer. I put an x between inner and outer framerails on both sides of the floor, in the tunnel, and a few extra bars tieing it all to the stock front and rear frame rails. What spec are you looking at doing? A,B, or C.


One day I will have something cool here.
Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: sdaurity] #1359211
12/27/12 07:56 PM
12/27/12 07:56 PM
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Don't get me wrong I don't disagree with adding support.Some of that depends on the condition of the car!!
As for wich style of cage I usually build.I perfer driver completely inside of the cage.If all else fails c is my next choice.It really just depends on the car and the driver!

Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: Moparpoor] #1359212
12/27/12 08:06 PM
12/27/12 08:06 PM
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North Cackilacky
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I helped build one to the A spec and I will never do that again. Just a big pain in the butt. My car and the couple stangs I have done are all the B spec.


One day I will have something cool here.
Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: sdaurity] #1359213
12/28/12 01:59 PM
12/28/12 01:59 PM
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Motor City
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Awsome builds here. After 25.5'in mine, kind of wish we would of 25.3'd it but haven't even got it out to make some passes yet to get it anywhere near the 7.50 mark yet.


1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: 6PKRTSE] #1359214
12/28/12 07:46 PM
12/28/12 07:46 PM
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Melbourne , Australia
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Run a ladder bar or an Ultralink if you don't want to cut up the rear floor.
I have to dig out my 25.5 specs (My Fiance has tidied up and stashed them away somewhere), I am not sure what you are referring to in regards to the A, B etc spec. I am assuming it would be some of the options with the floor bars?
I have to get started on the bars on my car next week, I will be doing the floor bars first and then on the cage. My floor pan is out of the car already (I bought it like it), and one from a donor car will be getting welded in.


Alan Jones
Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: LA360] #1359215
12/28/12 08:10 PM
12/28/12 08:10 PM
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sdaurity Offline
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A,B,C,or D spec has to do with the drivers location to the main hoop of the car.


One day I will have something cool here.
Re: 25.3 B bodies [Re: sdaurity] #1359216
12/28/12 09:16 PM
12/28/12 09:16 PM
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Ashville, Manitoba, Canada
superbeeman69 Offline OP
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I've been struggling trying to find a class to accept my car the way I want to build it as well as a DR class that still runs 1/4mile but I think ive found it. SCSN xtreme/TT5

http://www.streetcarsupernationals.com/extreme.html

Weight is pretty good...3300min with BB/twins, no restrictions on rear suspension, transmission, has to stay a full OEM body, 12in max rear DR so I can use 315s. I'm happy! Hopefully the rules will remain unchanged for 2013. I'm not holding my breath tho. Ill bring this point up on YB too in anyone cares to follow over there as well.

Going the route I want to go, the motor will be a 451CI, twin precision T3 62mm turbos, 727 or Rossler, moser M9. Body is staying all steel unless I need to loose weight, 25.3 cage, 4 link or Caltrac rear suspension (still researching this aspect, Jay, looking in your direction here ) willwoods, prolly missing some stuff. Still crossing alot of T's and dotting I's.


1970 FM3 Coronet 440, 1971 FJ6 Dude D100
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