25.3 B bodies

25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 05:59 AM

Are there any out there? I think I want to go full out 25.3 with my 69 bee and I'd like to see some chassis pics but google retuned very few results. I'm a member of the turboforums and YB too if there's something over there I've missed.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 06:32 AM

Look on here in the race cars for sale section,Top Sportsman roller, maybe the seller will share some information with you

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 06:46 AM

Sean Brady has a really bad 68 Charger Top Sportsman car.

Attached picture 7518813-Sean-brady3.jpg

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 07:03 AM

Are you planning on doing it your self or having a
shop do it... if your doing it just get the spec sheet
for the cert... money well spent

Posted By: superbeeman69

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 07:32 AM

Quote:

Are you planning on doing it your self or having a
shop do it... if your doing it just get the spec sheet
for the cert... money well spent

I'm ordering it in the AM with my first cup of coffee

While I have very limited experience with a TIG, being a body guy by trade, it's obviously something I want to learn and I learn quick. I can plastic weld with my eyes closed, weld with a torch and filler rod so I just have to add the pedal. Maybe ill take up sewing too! Ill obviously practice with scrap first (been watching a guy on YB have a tough go with his moly welding skills) before I start welding bars in but yes ill do it all myself.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 07:38 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Are you planning on doing it your self or having a
shop do it... if your doing it just get the spec sheet
for the cert... money well spent

I'm ordering it in the AM with my first cup of coffee

While I have very limited experience with a TIG, being a body guy by trade, it's obviously something I want to learn and I learn quick. I can plastic weld with my eyes closed, weld with a torch and filler rod so I just have to add the pedal. Maybe ill take up sewing too! Ill obviously practice with scrap first (been watching a guy on YB have a tough go with his moly welding skills) before I start welding bars in but yes ill do it all myself.

Its just practice... and watching your temp... if you
can do the other stuff you can tig... I done a fair
amount of chassis's(all moly) and its nothing trick
but a good machine sure helps

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 08:14 AM

25.3 has a lot a bars for cars under 3600, which is not always easy with a B-Body!

Posted By: superbeeman69

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 08:35 AM

Quote:

25.3 has a lot a bars for cars under 3600, which is not always easy with a B-Body!

I know!

I helped install a 25.3 cage in an 81 Camaro a few years back. Basically fitting and cutting while the owner welded. Then I did the body and paint. Now that I'm thinking of doing this myself, I remember all the new words I learned that winter. Those 81 camaros tho, the junk they are, have partial unibody, partial subframe construction which made certain aspects around the firewall, knee bar and D/S loop a total pain in the ass. I also recall the lower floor portion of the cage was installed inside the car rather than underneath. How clear does the spec sheet get regarding variables between body styles? I can see why now a certain specific vehicle like a mustang is so widely used.

Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 02:24 PM

Pic of a 25.5 cert that will cert to 25.3.Need to change the #2 bar to 4130 round tube.

Attached picture 7518931-005.JPG

Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 02:26 PM

Few more pics

Attached picture 7518933-084.JPG

Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 02:30 PM

Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 02:34 PM

one more

Posted By: 52savoy

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 02:34 PM

Another word of advice...
Be careful of posting (SFI)copyrighted materials. You could have attorneys on your azz. I got busted(cease order) by a certain magazine even though I meant no harm... like you.

Posted By: superbeeman69

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 07:12 PM

Quote:

Another word of advice...
Be careful of posting (SFI)copyrighted materials. You could have attorneys on your azz. I got busted(cease order) by a certain magazine even though I meant no harm... like you.

Wouldn't it cost SFI more than 35 bux to send out a cease and desist? Lol stuff like that is why my palm hits my forehead on a daily basis. Thanks for the heads up!

Posted By: therocks

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 07:17 PM

Moparpoor is that a 65 B body behind the race car?Looks good in the pics.Rocky

Posted By: superbeeman69

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 07:20 PM

Moparpoor, are you making a sheet metal interior? Looks great BTW! Ill be keeping all of my factory Interior which I know will make my life that much more difficult bit I think adds alot more personality to the car. Thanks for the pics! Gives me a good idea of what I'm up against.

Now who else sells 25.x moly chassis kits? I've always worked with s&W but their 25.3 chassis kit only works for chargers and correct me if I'm wrong but coronets/satellites have a shorter wheelbase do they not? That's alot of bars needing work before they can be fitted. Any suggestions? The above pics of the 71 B body must've had issues too. I know the kit for the Camaro I did needed alot if modifying but I thought that was more because of the stupid stock subframe up front.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 07:21 PM

Have you looked into having a completed welded chassis made for you on a jig by one of the bettr shops and installing your body on it

If not you may be pleasentily suprised on the costs and lead time

I was considering buying a SFI 25-3 RJ welded chassis for $7400.00 US plus the shipping but another deal turned up on a complete roller so that project is on hold for now

Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 07:24 PM

No thats my 64 dodge.

Attached picture 7519235-001.JPG

Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 07:31 PM

Quote:

Moparpoor, are you making a sheet metal interior? Looks great BTW! Ill be keeping all of my factory Interior which I know will make my life that much more difficult bit I think adds alot more personality to the car. Thanks for the pics! Gives me a good idea of what I'm up against.

Now who else sells 25.x moly chassis kits? I've always worked with s&W but their 25.3 chassis kit only works for chargers and correct me if I'm wrong but coronets/satellites have a shorter wheelbase do they not? That's alot of bars needing work before they can be fitted. Any suggestions? The above pics of the 71 B body must've had issues too. I know the kit for the Camaro I did needed alot if modifying but I thought that was more because of the stupid stock subframe up front. [/quote
Its only going to be tin on the back half.We used the factory floors and firewall.This allows you to eliminate the use for all #4 and #8 bars.As for using prebent cages on anything than a A-body isn't going to happen!!I wouldn't use any prebent cage over 8 points period.Way to many variables to cause issues!.

Posted By: superbeeman69

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 08:15 PM

No way do I have access to the equipment needed to make my cage from scratch and I don't trust any of the local shops to build it. Ill have to order the 25.3 S&W kit and some extra material and do it myself to make it feasible. I'd probably get tarred and feathered if I cut up the car I'm using too so I'm leaving the original floors and firewall. It's also staying all steel except for the hood and maybe bumpers. That's why I was hesitant to even go the 25.3 route.

Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 08:32 PM

For the money you are going to spend on a prebent cage you can buy the basic equipment to bend your own.You will still need a tubing bender to adjust bars as needed.You will be making changes to the cage.Check out woodward fab it is basic stuff,stuff I started with.It will handle the work load of any DIY builder!

Posted By: sdaurity

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 09:40 PM

Fixing to start a 25.3 69 charger in a few weeks. My A-body is a 25.3. And done quite a few mustangs but no big cars yet. Good luck.

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 10:45 PM

I know on my 70 RoadRunner/Superbird chassis The original chassis shop wanted to place the main hoop Back far enough to weld the 4-link brackets too. But because of the wheel base, this would mean I either moved the rear wheels forward 10" or I drive from the back seat.

So instead he had to build it more like a ProStock truck, with the rear suspension mounts on an extended frame. This move the main hoop forward enough I could use a "figure c" style funny car cage which permits the drivers head to be partially under the main hoop.

Here is a pic (figure A style) with driver head in front of hoop, but with the suspension moved back for longer wheelbase car.

An A or E body car can have the suspension on braces in the main hoop area (sorry Camaro pic was only reference I could find - Pretend its a Cuda)

I HIGHLY doubt you can get a "nice" 25.3 cage for a B-body completely pre-bent. I would think you would need some type of tubing bender for at least a few places to insure a proper fit.

For the record, I second the nomination for have RJ Racecars build your chassis. I went with "a friend" and got screwed. For $9000 (2-1/2 years later)I got back a chassis that won't certify and has none of the welds done on the bottom. I will NEVER take anything back to "Cartel llc." For about the same money I could have have RJ or Adkins racecars build me a top sportsman chassis.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 11:03 PM

Quote:

Now who else sells 25.x moly chassis kits? I've always worked with s&W but their 25.3 chassis kit only works for chargers and correct me if I'm wrong but coronets/satellites have a shorter wheelbase do they not? That's alot of bars needing work before they can be fitted. Any suggestions? The above pics of the 71 B body must've had issues too. I know the kit for the Camaro I did needed alot if modifying but I thought that was more because of the stupid stock subframe up front.

Charger and coronet have the same wheelbase , longer than the satellite by 1/2" , that 1/2" is in the front hanger for the rear springs ... and obviously the rear quarters and wheelhouses ...

Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 11:15 PM

Yes you have to build a rear sub frame with these cars.It creates alot more work than an a-body.You would think with a bigger car it would be easier to work on.Just the opposite do to all the extra tubing for the back half.If you do a stock suspension it would make it alot easier.I doubt you could utilize the cert with stock back half in a b-body.

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 11:33 PM

Quote:

I doubt you could utilize the cert with stock back half in a b-body.

The actual "certification" is only for the drivers compartment area and main hoop supports. The type, style, or location of the suspension is not part of the certification process. So, yes you could use stock front and rear suspension. But then it kinda makes the need for 25.3 chassis a moot point, as I think it would be quite difficult to run faster than 7.50 on stock suspension!

And Moparpoor - I would really like to see some more of your 71! (I miss mine!)

Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/26/12 11:53 PM

That was my point exactly!

Posted By: superbeeman69

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/27/12 04:16 AM

Is there an amendum by SFI for that rear subframe portion? Yes or no will suffice since the post with the SFI copywriting has already been taken down.

Those that have been here before check this out.

http://www.martzchassis.net/our-products/front-independent-suspension/chrysler-a-amp-b-body

Could this be used since I want to retain my original floors and rails and go 4 link? I'm begining to think I'm in unchartered waters here keeping so much of the original car. Yes it will be hard to campaign against other cars but I can always lighten it up more if I choose to. From a suspension standpoint, does the rear subframe play a role? Fuel cell placement will need to be more thought out, but on the other hand the rear sub is great for mounting the 'schutes.

Posted By: superbeeman69

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/27/12 05:36 AM

Prostreetdodge, do you have other angles of that CAD drawing?

Been thinking a little more about my possible rear suspension choices. I'd like to go the 4 link route but I also want to retain as much of the original car as possible including the floors and rails. In theory I could use this weld in Martz kit and still do the 25.3 cage, independent of one another correct? Or I could also go the Calvert route too. John is a super nice guy and with his record holding parts (7.24@200) I think a strong argument could be had between Calvert parts and a 4 link made my whoever.

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/27/12 08:32 PM

Quote:

Prostreetdodge, do you have other angles of that CAD drawing?

Been thinking a little more about my possible rear suspension choices. I'd like to go the 4 link route but I also want to retain as much of the original car as possible including the floors and rails. In theory I could use this weld in Martz kit and still do the 25.3 cage, independent of one another correct? Or I could also go the Calvert route too. John is a super nice guy and with his record holding parts (7.24@200) I think a strong argument could be had between Calvert parts and a 4 link made my whoever.

That was an image I found on a Google search. I think it was from one of the chassis kit companies (Jerry Bickel I think).

Since there is no spec on suspension, yes you can run stock front and rear frame rails. I kept my front frame rails (cut off the pinch weld flange and re-welded for a cleaner look) and installed an Alter-K-ation front end.

The SFI spec is for safety, so it pertains to the portion of the car which protects the driver in case of an incident. The faster and heavier the car, the more bars needed.

I plan on using mine as a street/strip toy, so I am basically doing a 25.5 cage. But, I am leaving out the funny car portion at the moment. The car will still pass to 8.50. And if someone else wants to buy it and make it faster, it will take very little to cert to 7.50. (basically the forward portion of the funny car cage). I have been 8.50 in a door car. I don't need to go faster.

What motor are you planning on using to need a chassis that fast?

And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but there is no way you are going to keep or reinstall a "stock" floor pan in the car once you have a 25.3 cage in it.

Scott

Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/27/12 09:58 PM

Why can't you keep the stock floor?Their is no added bars between 25.5 and 25.3 in the floor area.Actually by keeping the stock floor you eliminate the use of #4 and #8 bars.Three major differences between 25.5 and 25.3.First 25.3 is all chromoly round tube or recently updated docol r8.25.5 can be eaither mild or 4130.Second 25.3 requires roof x brace #37 bars.25.5 requires only one diagnol #37.Third 25.3 requires multiple 1"diameter gussets at multiple given points.25.5 does not require.
Now will you have to drill some holes in the floor,yes!You will drill holes in the floor for the pillar bars and main hoop to intersect your #6 an #1 bars.Retaining the stock floor does require more effort usually.

Posted By: sdaurity

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/27/12 10:13 PM

Quote:

Why can't you keep the stock floor?Their is no added bars between 25.5 and 25.3 in the floor area.Actually by keeping the stock floor you eliminate the use of #4 and #8 bars.Three major differences between 25.5 and 25.3.First 25.3 is all chromoly round tube or recently updated docol r8.25.5 can be eaither mild or 4130.Second 25.3 requires roof x brace #37 bars.25.5 requires only one diagnol #37.Third 25.3 requires multiple 1"diameter gussets at multiple given points.25.5 does not require.
Now will you have to drill some holes in the floor,yes!You will drill holes in the floor for the pillar bars and main hoop to intersect your #6 an #1 bars.Retaining the stock floor does require more effort usually.

There are quite a few size differences in a 25.5 and a 25.3. There are a few bars that can be left out of a 25.3 if you have a stock floor pan but why would you build a 25.3 and not have more bars in the floor and an x in the tunnel? I put a few bars extra and a few up sized from the spec to where I would feel comfortable in the car going as fast as the cert will allow.

Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/27/12 10:32 PM

The only major tube size differences are the dash bar and on 25.5 passenger side bars are allowed to be smaller.I just went through the specs side by side.

As for leaving bars out in the floor.What do you think you gain by having those bars.SFI even allows for the factory torsion bar crossmember to substitute for #6c on 67-69 dart and cudas!

Posted By: sdaurity

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/27/12 11:27 PM

I put emough bars in it to where if I took a lick in it running over 200 mph I would feel safe. I know it will pass with less, but it just makes me feel better sitting in it I guess is the best answer. I put an x between inner and outer framerails on both sides of the floor, in the tunnel, and a few extra bars tieing it all to the stock front and rear frame rails. What spec are you looking at doing? A,B, or C.

Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/27/12 11:56 PM

Don't get me wrong I don't disagree with adding support.Some of that depends on the condition of the car!!
As for wich style of cage I usually build.I perfer driver completely inside of the cage.If all else fails c is my next choice.It really just depends on the car and the driver!

Posted By: sdaurity

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/28/12 12:06 AM

I helped build one to the A spec and I will never do that again. Just a big pain in the butt. My car and the couple stangs I have done are all the B spec.

Posted By: 6PKRTSE

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/28/12 05:59 PM

Awsome builds here. After 25.5'in mine, kind of wish we would of 25.3'd it but haven't even got it out to make some passes yet to get it anywhere near the 7.50 mark yet.

Posted By: LA360

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/28/12 11:46 PM

Run a ladder bar or an Ultralink if you don't want to cut up the rear floor.
I have to dig out my 25.5 specs (My Fiance has tidied up and stashed them away somewhere), I am not sure what you are referring to in regards to the A, B etc spec. I am assuming it would be some of the options with the floor bars?
I have to get started on the bars on my car next week, I will be doing the floor bars first and then on the cage. My floor pan is out of the car already (I bought it like it), and one from a donor car will be getting welded in.

Posted By: sdaurity

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/29/12 12:10 AM

A,B,C,or D spec has to do with the drivers location to the main hoop of the car.

Posted By: superbeeman69

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/29/12 01:16 AM

I've been struggling trying to find a class to accept my car the way I want to build it as well as a DR class that still runs 1/4mile but I think ive found it. SCSN xtreme/TT5

http://www.streetcarsupernationals.com/extreme.html

Weight is pretty good...3300min with BB/twins, no restrictions on rear suspension, transmission, has to stay a full OEM body, 12in max rear DR so I can use 315s. I'm happy! Hopefully the rules will remain unchanged for 2013. I'm not holding my breath tho. Ill bring this point up on YB too in anyone cares to follow over there as well.

Going the route I want to go, the motor will be a 451CI, twin precision T3 62mm turbos, 727 or Rossler, moser M9. Body is staying all steel unless I need to loose weight, 25.3 cage, 4 link or Caltrac rear suspension (still researching this aspect, Jay, looking in your direction here

) willwoods, prolly missing some stuff. Still crossing alot of T's and dotting I's.

Posted By: sunroofgtx

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/29/12 06:15 PM

Getting my N/A 800 hp Hemi for now, while building a twin Bullseye 76mm Twin plug, twin coilpack 2nd Gen Hemi. 10.5W tires

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/29/12 06:36 PM

Rick, I am SO happy you got that car, It is one of the few cars out there that has been under construction for longer than mine! Now that you have it I know it will get done!

Attached picture 7523287-100_2550a.jpg

Posted By: sunroofgtx

Re: 25.3 B bodies - 12/29/12 10:06 PM

Love this picture !! Thanks very much for sending the pics.