So, If im thinking here correctly here this stuff is loaded with zink and phosphorus for camshaft life, so why if any is there a reason to ever use it on a roller engine. I never used a drop in my Demon, complete solid roller engine, just started life with brad penn 20w50 since its a street car and engine oil temps have a tendensy to get higher on the street.

How will break in oil help seat rings, or do anything for the bearings? Low tension rings dont need the "break in" like older rings do correct??

I've recently been doing some research on what's in the various brands of "break in" oil and am having a bit of trouble getting past the hype and into the facts myself. I suspect some of them have been blended by their Marketing Departments, not their Engineering Team...

FWIW, I'll be doing the initial start-up of my rebuilt 452 roller engine w/ Brad Penn's 30-wt break-in oil, but I don't plan on keeping it in for long. They've got a "tech paper" (wrapped in advertising?) on their web site that claims there are still ring-seating benefits to using it, and that the oils w/ the mega-high amounts of zinc & phos. are actually counter-productive to helping new rings seal.

Not much else I can offer at this time. I've asked the same basic question before and didn't get much fact-based input, either

I've asked myself 'so, what went wrong all those years before these break-in oils came (publicly) on the market'...? Was there suddenly a need for Break-in oils for the average Joe?

A couple of years ago no-one talked about break-in oils it seems.

My initial idea is some oil-company saw an opportunity for a 'new' product since most 'oldstyle engine' builders aren't buying their modernday state of the art synthetic slurries. Other oil-companies jumped on the bandwagon.

Kasey, One of the things i've noticed is exactly what Brad eluded to regarding ring seal. I've seen where it takes longer to seat the rings when i use break in oil. They always seat fine but it does seem to take longer. On a roller motor i don't use break in oil or additive of any kind. My opinion is that unless it's a flat tappet cam it's getting the oil that will be run in it full time. The flat tappet cams and lifters need the extra lubrication break in oil provides since the EPA has made oil companies cut back on the zinc and phospherous in the everyday oils.

Oh, by the way Kasey, Happy Birthday.

Well Im also not sold on the whole thing either, I completely under stand the flat tapped deal, but I also think that a good oil thats known to have the correct amount of zink and phosphorous should be fine for the camshaft, Like in my case good ol brad penn. I am not arguing the fact that break inn oils help the cam, but what can it help the bearings and rings, like stated above.

Im building a buddies 4.0 for his jeep, and he bought Joe Gibbs break in oil and holy crap nuts batman, 60 bucks for 6 quarts, REALLY???

seems a touch overkill to me.

But Ill run it and make him happy. I remember Dad building engines back when I was a lil snapper and he never had anything special in the oils, just broke the cams in like normal.

My 440 in the Ramcharger was broke in with just Brad Penn 10w30 with a can of zink additive in it, It went fine so far.

and Thanks for the BD wishes Mr performance, aka Dan the man.

Kasey, Back when you were a little tike we had better oil. like i said, the EPA has mandated much lower levels of zinc and phospherous and that's been going on for quite a few years now. sometimes people get lucky with the flat tappet cams and other times not so much.
I agree that break in oil in a 4.0 jeep motor is totally unnecessary.
Brad Penn is my oil of choice for most of the engines I build, but break in oil only goes in the flat tappet motors.

Seems more like cheap insurance to me. The 4.0 jeep in question is a flat tappet motor with an aftermarket cam and valve springs. Not saying its a very agressive cam and valve springs but more then it had from the factory. So this 60 dollars worth of oil may save a couple hundred dollars of cam and lifters and a couple hundred hundred in gaskets,seals, bearings and oil pump. plus that fact that if the cam went flat in your shop before the customer picked it up AND PAID YOU do you think you would get paid? Do you think he would pay for the new parts? So he spent the $60 in Joe Gibbs break in oil which is on the shelf here. Would it have been better to special order 10w30 brad penn at $6 a quart. 6 X 6 = $36 plus shipping and spend $14 for break in additive? That totals $50 plus what ever shipping would have been and you wouldn't have it in your hands today. New motor, flat tappet use break in oil. Roller lifter use what ever you want.
As for ring seal I've never figured that out. Sell me super slippery oil to stop engine wear then tell me it has additives to seat (wear) the rings. Almost forgot HAPPY BIRHTDAY KASEY. Your still older than me. But i still look older. Crap that parts not as good a deal as it was 10 years ago.

Im not argueing the use of it here in this case, just the cost of it is stupid as hell.

I thought Roth Racing had 10w30 bradd penn on hand, he told me he did have a few cases,

If he is gona run that oil in the engine after break in, why not keep the extra oil around for changes down the road.

The ring seal is my main question here, Not the use of high zink oils and flat tappets.

I never ran anything in the demon at all except the Brad Penn, Full roller, yet some people told me I should have used a lighter break in oil.

I understand the old oils were better, and by adding say a lucas oil zink additive to the standard oils today, that would get me back to the standard oils from when Dad built engines.

Not getting into a pissing match here, and Iunderstand the what ifs, and insurance side, but Im still not sold on the 10 dollar a quart break in oils. I think some corporate douche somewhere found a niche market for guys who just spent thousands on a engine and want a better oil to have piece of mind.

Just a way to line pockets I think.....

Thanks hot rod for the BD wishes, I hope ya stop in to have a beer with me and Donny tomarrow.

No pissing match here.
I think the break in oil is required in his case because of the cam.
As for the ring thing. Like i said in the last post i'm not sold on it.
Super slick oil to stop wear with additive to seat (wear) the rings.?

No Roth doesn't stock 10w30 Brad Penn. Wish he did.

Years ago i started running Brad Penn oil (high dollar for the time)and an additive that cost me $150 a gallon in my 8,000 rpm dirt track motor. I was told by many i was wasting money. I had one engine problem in 6 years and you seen the results from that. I'm sold on Brad Penn and that additive. By the way i had to cover part of the radiator in that car to get the motor over 150 degrees after i switched to that oil and additve. My engine building asked me what i was using as my motor always looked brand new.

I totally agree here on having something in the oil for the cam,

Oh and Im your favorite number today,,,,,,33 ol buddy.

Quote:

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I've recently been doing some research on what's in the various brands of "break in" oil and am having a bit of trouble getting past the hype and into the facts myself. I suspect some of them have been blended by their Marketing Departments, not their Engineering Team...

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here is someone that "gets it"

imho all the magic claims about this oil or that oil are a bunch of bunk. i worked in a lubes packaging plant and saw first hand the label vs contents deal. one of the products we packaged was kendall GT-1 which afaik is now the brad penn "green" oil which the "green" is NOTHING but dye which you don't want or need in an engine. imho you can get a perfectly acceptable quality of lubricant from the major vendors without paying a ridiculous amount of money for some boutique named oil.

unless things have changed shell rotella is pretty good. personally i run valvoline VR-1 20-50 in the dragster (i got a bunch half price), mobil 1 0-40 european in the sled, walmart synthetic in the cars and shell rotella 15-40 in the motorcycles and cummins. people are free to choose whatever lubricant they like and if paying a premium price makes them think it's better then so be it. even i myself knowing better get a little carried away. i'd be wiling to bet the rotella would work perfectly fine in everything except the sled which has seen -20°. when was the last time someone attributed an engine failure of any type (flat tappet possible exception) directly to the oil chosen? for flat tappet concerns just use a common vendor that has the desired level of ZDDP you want.

brad penn, royal purple, amsoil, joe gibbs, red line or any other snake oil...you'll never see a bottle of them in my shop unless someone left it there