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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: sixpackgut] #1348796
12/10/12 11:18 PM
12/10/12 11:18 PM
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Glendale Az
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if you want to drive it anywhere then gear/tire size and converter needs to be part of your quest for mid 9s because there is no way I would have been able to deal with my car with anything more than a 3.55 gear during drag week



Ray.splurge for a GV and get rid of the 3.55s. That and a cage update.




I wouldnt run DW without a OD trans... can it be done...
sure but the OD sure helps to lower the rpm during
the drive.... I went with the 518 trans which cost
ALOT less than a GV and its a touch more OD.. then
I went with 4.10 gears





with the 3.55s, my car was running around 77mph at 3300rpms. under 3000 rpm the car didn't "feel" as good. I figured this was because that is where the multi spark stopped. I have always wondered if the multi spark was really worth it. with my timming turned way down, the A/F was on the rich side during Drag Week which I tried to lean the carbs out but when I put the timing back to where it would belong the A/F would be right on

moral of the story is I don't have high dollar anything in my car, with the timing turned way down, I still managed a 9.90 at 139 and my hood blew up and broke on that pass so I'm not sure it was a full pass.

If you look at the number of small blocks running mid 9s during Drag Week you will realize the number of cars was zero and their combos didn't look to economical to me




Jakes 67 Chevelle ran in the 9s during Dragweek this year, he was the only one doing so in the SB street race N/A class and his car weighs over 3400lbs.
BUT he has spent Big Bucks on his combo, like 6k on the trans and converter, 488 gear.
Now some info on the motor, 402SB chevy with 23 degree heads 11.1 compression that he shifts at 8500RPMs. He changed the spark plugs and the oil every day. He also checked the valve spring lash every day and would check the springs. Oh the cam in the motor has .866 of lift.
The place that built the motor put it on a spinaton to make sure the valve train would live on the street and the track.

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: Darryls-Demon] #1348797
12/10/12 11:29 PM
12/10/12 11:29 PM
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Portage,michigan
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Thumper
BB Eddie heads are at least as good if not better than a W5 or a 230 indy small block head.

I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke... Lol
I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.
I just see many( not yours) big blocks that are major underachievers at the track
Not all, mind you, but a disgustingly high amount


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: B3422W5] #1348798
12/11/12 12:01 AM
12/11/12 12:01 AM
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n20mstr Offline
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Quote:

Thumper
BB Eddie heads are at least as good if not better than a W5 or a 230 indy small block head.

I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke... Lol
I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.
I just see many( not yours) big blocks that are major underachievers at the track
Not all, mind you, but a disgustingly high amount




THIS has to be the funniest $hit i have ever read....^


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: n20mstr] #1348799
12/11/12 12:03 AM
12/11/12 12:03 AM
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Portage,michigan
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Quote:

Quote:

Thumper
BB Eddie heads are at least as good if not better than a W5 or a 230 indy small block head.

I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke... Lol
I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.
I just see many( not yours) big blocks that are major underachievers at the track
Not all, mind you, but a disgustingly high amount




THIS has to be the funniest $hit i have ever read....^






And 100% true


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: B3422W5] #1348800
12/11/12 12:06 AM
12/11/12 12:06 AM
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nc
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moeflo Offline
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Use a junkyard LS-1. It will run 8-teens at 170+ dead stock. And the entire package will cost under $3.00

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: moeflo] #1348801
12/11/12 12:11 AM
12/11/12 12:11 AM
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The original post was...CAN IT BE DONE

You guys have turned it into another SB vs BB thread

IF YOUR SAMLLBLOCKS are SO FAST....

WHY ARENT YOU SHOWING UP TO ANY OF JOSH'S RACES????

The only fast one ive seen so far is Bill May and Leon..


THeres my 100% true statement ...LOL

Why dont you all answer what the guy asked???
YES IT CAN BE DONE WITH A SMALLBLOCK....
Spend the money in the right places, go do it and have fun !


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: B3422W5] #1348802
12/11/12 12:27 AM
12/11/12 12:27 AM
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Quote:

Thumper
BB Eddie heads are at least as good if not better than a W5 or a 230 indy small block head.

I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke... Lol
I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.
I just see many( not yours) big blocks that are major underachievers at the track
Not all, mind you, but a disgustingly high amount


I hear what you`re saying and agree SOME are slugs for sure. I don`t claim to have the fastest anything but my junk out runs some and is slower than others plus, again 9.79 was my first pass of the trailer and trust me a 9.59 will be here soon enuff............so yes, it CAN be done...........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: B3422W5] #1348803
12/11/12 12:40 AM
12/11/12 12:40 AM
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Phoenix, AZ
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I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke. I just see a disgustingly high amount big blocks that are major underachievers at the track.


I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.






This is exactly the kind of statement which causes me to view most of the small block homers on here with a lack of credibility. This combined with ricraw and onebad's total lack of constuctive input, just blanket one liners, very little specifics.

So a gutted 3000lb. Duster with a 440 and 590 solid cam and 1500$ worth of topend runs 10.50, year after year after year and it disgusts you because you've got a 10 timeslips in the nines at 350 lbs more, 20 inches less and a 15000$ time bomb that may spring a leak at any time??

OK, ok, Mike, the OP said he didn't want any negative, pithin match style posts, and in deference to him, I will try to comply.

First,
The fantasy of a Mid 9 second street car is much better than the reality, and everything is subjective.
"Drive it around without much problems", Mike says.
What does that mean to the individual?
Is an oil change every 500 miles acceptable?
New set of roller lifters every 2500 miles acceptable?
Keeping an eye on the temp and oil guages constantly acceptable?
Do you expect to drive through the gate, straight up to the burnout box, and go 9's after a 75-150 mile drive, or does changing the plugs, rejetting the carb, dropping the pipes, or bolting on slicks seem like reasonable or acceptable concessions??

Now we make the Fantasy tougher by wanting it NA. Sheez! those gutted bigblock A-bodies that disgust B3422W5 at the track would easily be mid-9 second street cars with a good nitrous tune, a gear change and an exhaust system.


"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks" 4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: MoparBilly] #1348804
12/11/12 12:49 AM
12/11/12 12:49 AM
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Quote:

Quote:


I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke. I just see a disgustingly high amount big blocks that are major underachievers at the track.


I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.






This is exactly the kind of statement which causes me to view most of the small block homers on here with a lack of credibility. This combined with ricraw and onebad's total lack of constuctive input, just blanket one liners, very little specifics.

So a gutted 3000lb. Duster with a 440 and 590 solid cam and 1500$ worth of topend runs 10.50, year after year after year and it disgusts you because you've got a 10 timeslips in the nines at 350 lbs more, 20 inches less and a 15000$ time bomb that may spring a leak at any time??

OK, ok, Mike, the OP said he didn't want any negative, pithin match style posts, and in deference to him, I will try to comply.

First,
The fantasy of a Mid 9 second street car is much better than the reality, and everything is subjective.
"Drive it around without much problems", Mike says.
What does that mean to the individual?
Is an oil change every 500 miles acceptable?
New set of roller lifters every 2500 miles acceptable?
Keeping an eye on the temp and oil guages constantly acceptable?
Do you expect to drive through the gate, straight up to the burnout box, and go 9's after a 75-150 mile drive, or does changing the plugs, rejetting the carb, dropping the pipes, or bolting on slicks seem like reasonable or acceptable concessions??

Now we make the Fantasy tougher by wanting it NA. Sheez! those gutted bigblock A-bodies that disgust B3422W5 at the track would easily be mid-9 second street cars with a good nitrous tune, a gear change and an exhaust system.


Ya, I`m STILL waiting on the "weight"of these so called 9-second street cars w/a baby motor and the chevelle above, gimme a break w/all of that amount of maintainance..............too funny.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: MoparBilly] #1348805
12/11/12 01:03 AM
12/11/12 01:03 AM
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Posts: 11,710
Portage,michigan
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Quote:

Quote:


I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke. I just see a disgustingly high amount big blocks that are major underachievers at the track.


I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.






This is exactly the kind of statement which causes me to view most of the small block homers on here with a lack of credibility. This combined with ricraw and onebad's total lack of constuctive input, just blanket one liners, very little specifics.

So a gutted 3000lb. Duster with a 440 and 590 solid cam and 1500$ worth of topend runs 10.50, year after year after year and it disgusts you because you've got a 10 timeslips in the nines at 350 lbs more, 20 inches less and a 15000$ time bomb that may spring a leak at any time??

OK, ok, Mike, the OP said he didn't want any negative, pithin match style posts, and in deference to him, I will try to comply.

First,
The fantasy of a Mid 9 second street car is much better than the reality, and everything is subjective.
"Drive it around without much problems", Mike says.
What does that mean to the individual?
Is an oil change every 500 miles acceptable?
New set of roller lifters every 2500 miles acceptable?
Keeping an eye on the temp and oil guages constantly acceptable?
Do you expect to drive through the gate, straight up to the burnout box, and go 9's after a 75-150 mile drive, or does changing the plugs, rejetting the carb, dropping the pipes, or bolting on slicks seem like reasonable or acceptable concessions??

Now we make the Fantasy tougher by wanting it NA. Sheez! those gutted bigblock A-bodies that disgust B3422W5 at the track would easily be mid-9 second street cars with a good nitrous tune, a gear change and an exhaust system.




Actually that 422 motor I raced LOTS for 7 years with one freshen, and it ran 9's scores of times always through mufflers, with s/s springs, and stock suspension
Current owner freshened it again, races it at 3200 pounds and has been 140mph with it
N/A. Been together 10 years now with 2 freshens, but thanks for playing.
590 called 440's are fine, it's the roller 500 inch motors I crack up about
You need to go to a Mopar only race I guess and watch 300 or 400 bracket cars in pro and super pro cars go down the track overs few years sample size and you will see for yourself..... Tons of BB cars in the 10's with big motors and cut up cars

Some run good, real good, but lots and lots of slugs


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: B3422W5] #1348806
12/11/12 01:09 AM
12/11/12 01:09 AM
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Renton Washington
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Triple Threat Offline
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Renton Washington
Yes it can be done with either. Both have their ups and downs.

Generally speaking its going to be easier done with a big block if budget is a big concern. Cubic inches is cubic inches and there is a reason all the guys doing it with small blocks have nearly 100 more cubes than factory. Small block will be a little lighter and usually easier packaged in a duster, but its going to take a few more "exotic" parts to get it done.


-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: B3422W5] #1348807
12/11/12 01:19 AM
12/11/12 01:19 AM
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PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
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PA.
I know lots of guys that keep there cars in the mid 10's for lack of proper safety equipment and they don't want to spend the money it would take to do so. I myself put steel doors on my Duster over the Winter to slow my high 9 second pump gas small block down to low 10's. I love running 8's in the Daytona but the Duster is a fun, simple car to race. I throw 5 gallon of 93 octane gas in it and go racing. Single layer coat and wind down the windows after the pass. I know for a fact that you can run 8's-9's a lot cheaper with a big block than you can with a small block.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: pittsburghracer] #1348808
12/11/12 01:57 AM
12/11/12 01:57 AM
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Romeo MI
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Romeo MI
Lets get back to reality .. the OP wants to go MID 9s
in a streetcar... I will assume on premium pump gas...
OK... lighten the car to 2800lbs-2900lbs... thats not
that hard from where he is(IF YOU SPEND SOME TIME)
so if he has that weight... 620HP will do it.. for
the street I would run OD... GV is a real nice set up
but cost $3000... I went with a 518... bolts to a SB
without anything.. cost me... $300 for the trans (at
the bone yard), $110 for the freshening kit, I changed
the input and pump so I could use a non lock up high
stall conv $120(for input and pump)... thats it for
the trans.. a 4.10 gear and I went with 295/55 tires..
once I dial it in should be 10.0 or a bit quicker
but I dont have 620hp.. I have 550hp and this should
be a decent street machine(I will see next spring)
LIGHTER IS ALWAYS BETTER


Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 12/11/12 01:58 AM.
Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1348809
12/11/12 02:49 AM
12/11/12 02:49 AM
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Topeka Kansas
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ksj Offline
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We were quite surprised while putting Crows Dart together.Best of 10.03 with a M.t. rather than an AT.It will never have an automatic in it.The Cuda went 10.30s and the Dart should go 9.80s just in the difference in weight but its a whole different animal IMHO.People just dont know how low maintenance that car is.Could he turn the wick up?Yes.But we get more fun out of watching Jake change oil in his Chevelle.LOL.Could someone gut the heck out of a 67-69 Valaiant and go low 9s and go the distance on DragWeek? yes.Would they be paranoid?Probly.Same as someone else with a BB wanting to run 8s in BB/Na.Cracks me up that the comparable classes between SB and BB on DW the SB cars are quicker.

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: ksj] #1348810
12/11/12 02:57 AM
12/11/12 02:57 AM
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Renton Washington
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Triple Threat Offline
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Quote:

Cracks me up that the comparable classes between SB and BB on DW the SB cars are quicker.




I noticed this as well. Is there any rhyme or reason to why this is?


-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: B3422W5] #1348811
12/11/12 02:58 AM
12/11/12 02:58 AM
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Phoenix, AZ
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I'm not talking literally B3, just perspective, I guess. I've been to 75+ Mopar only races in the last 20 years, (first was a little 1 day deal in Tulsa in 1992). YES, I've seen the same tons of 10 second cut-up cars, I just never felt that they were slugs just because mine was faster. As I once told a friend, "I've never made a boring 10 second run, enjoyed all of them".

So, I'll give you my perspective, and maybe all you smallblock guru's can help me out.
A big block guy forever, been in the 8's with a nothin' solid cammed 440/eddie headed motor and plate system, been 9's NA with everything from an SR headed 440 to a 440-1 stroker, all of them with little to no reliabilty issues.

Then I fall in love with a cute little 62 Valiant that a friend has been bracket racing. The car goes 10.90's in the winter and 11.20's in the summer, but after 5 or 6 years he parks it, 5 or 6 more years later, I finally buy it.
It's a 4 bolt X block, standard bore, with stock rods, and ross pistons sticking .040 out of the hole on a nice early MP 3.79 stroke crank, upon re-building it I tossed the old MP 296-557, and went with a Hughes solid 260-264/587-594 which I had ground on a 110 lsa 'cause I'm a nitrous junkie. The stock heads had been ported massively by an ex SuperStock racer and stuffed with 2.05-1.60 valves with an M-1 and a 750 annular discharge carb. I just had everything freshened, and dumped the 1008's for a set of cometic head gaskets. Swapped out the 4.88s and put 4.30s, and put a Griner brake in low gear set 904.
It went 10.70-122 with a 130lb jockey behind the wheel. 10.89-121 was my best, with 11.10's in less than favorable conditions. The skinny driver put it in the wall a year later, and I decided upon tackling the rebuild that it would be a street car from then on. So, since then it has gotten, new wheels and tires, dynamat and new carpet, new tubular K-member and Qa-1 adjustable aluminum shocks at all 4 corners, and exhaust. 3.89 gears are added, but it retains the spool and ladder bars.

So I go on Drag Week in the Modified NA class and drive 1400 miles in a week, and Average 11.44, getting soundly trounced by sixpackgut's simple, straightforward BB car. I had borrowed a 950 carb, that required massive jet changes between street and track, and never ran close to the MPH of the old carb, so I had planned a return to the 750 annular when I got home, but alas, one of the 40 year old ported stock heads had enough of all that cruising at 210 degrees, and started sucking water.

So here I sit. I can take the beating that a 2900 lb. ladder bar/ spool car with plastic racing buckets can dish out, but I want a decent time slip for my troubles! I'm not as greedy as Mike..seriously, 10.30-10.40, NA would be fine, and then there is always a plate system on any ride of mine.

So, I have a full W-5 topend...rockers, intake, but the heads have been run hard, by a friend of mine, and he sold them to me cheap, because he was tired of repairing water leaks. Epoxy in the roofs, If it was a race car, I'd chance it...street car, I'm scared to death!
W-2's? I'd rather go with aluminum, but what? I get on Moparts and hear horror stories of Indy 360-1 CNC heads leaking, I talk to tons of racers claiming porosity problems with W-5 stuff, and even the same story on Indy 360-2 stuff. Everybody loves thier Eddy's, but is that enough to get me there without killer compression and a roller cam?

The 230 low deck block, and MCH ported stealths I have sitting around are looking better and better, I know a 470 solid cammed flat-top Big block would run 10.0's, be reliable, and nearly run 8's on the hose, just resisting cutting the little car up to shoehorn it in there.

So lay it out for me, how do I get there? Preferably without throwing the 3.79 crank in the trash. I mean if Mid-9's are easy without anything exotic, surely these small block guru's can cook me up a solid cammed, 3.79 stoke combo to go 10.30? Just has to putt down the road on pump gas, I'll pour in the good stuff when I get to the track! Also, I'm not a dedicated Small block homer, so make sure I can screw it togather for only a grand or so more than what that 470 will set me back.


"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks" 4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: MoparBilly] #1348812
12/11/12 03:14 AM
12/11/12 03:14 AM
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Topeka Kansas
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ksj Offline
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Number sent.Just a headsup. He over builds to a point but he always finishes and the same shortblock has been in there for 3-4 years with no upgrades.Thats why we watch Jake work on his car.LOL.

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: Triple Threat] #1348813
12/11/12 03:27 AM
12/11/12 03:27 AM
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Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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sixpackgut Offline
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Charleston
Quote:

Quote:

Cracks me up that the comparable classes between SB and BB on DW the SB cars are quicker.




I noticed this as well. Is there any rhyme or reason to why this is?




guys with no money build big blocks that they can shift at 5800 and cant afford or unwilling to change oil every 6 hours


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: sixpackgut] #1348814
12/11/12 03:58 AM
12/11/12 03:58 AM
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Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Cracks me up that the comparable classes between SB and BB on DW the SB cars are quicker.




I noticed this as well. Is there any rhyme or reason to why this is?




guys with no money build big blocks that they can shift at 5800 and cant afford or unwilling to change oil every 6 hours


Try 7500 on a stock 413 crank and 13+ year old chevy rods.........and yes, I`m poor...............not for long. Congrats again Ray........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? [Re: sixpackgut] #1348815
12/11/12 04:23 AM
12/11/12 04:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
I've always looked at it this way... we all want light
cars because its a known fact that it requires less
HP/torque to move it X ET/speed... a BB is 100 lbs
heavier(round figure) and now days with all the stroker
stuff ifs not hard to build a 425+ ci SB so to me its
to build a light car(2600-2800 lbs) and save the weight
with the SB... they tend to handle better on the road
(with minimal suspension work) VS the BB... if
all I wanted was a drag car that goes straight for
cheap I'd go BB but on the street we tend to go red
light to red light and call it racing but being a street
car you have to think weight.. yes the old idea of
you cant beat displacement has its point... but I'm
POSITIVE I could put a 5.7 to 6.4 hemi in my Rampage
and go mid 9s and have a nice DD car.. those guys
with the new hemis are making some nice power....
by the way... I am saving up for one

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