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Small block oiling question #1348567
12/09/12 07:03 PM
12/09/12 07:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline OP
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Hi,
i presume on a small block LA the rockers oil like a big block?At 2 different points you will get oil feed to the rocker shaft.The last 318 i did oiled to the top on #1 and #6 TDC
i have a customer supplied motor that will not oil to the shafts - i have rotated the motor over and checked at about every 15-20 degrees of crank.
i have taken the rockers off,crane,and found the shaft were fitted incorrectly which does not give me a great amount of faith in the rest of the motor build up.This is a 408ci with Eddy heads.
With hand priming,spinning,the oil pump i have oil to the lifter galley.There is oil drain back in the valley.
Bearings misaligned ?
Thoughts ?

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: tex013] #1348568
12/09/12 07:17 PM
12/09/12 07:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Use a piece of 1/16 tig rod(or something similar) and
with the rocker shafts off poke through the rocker
feed holes to make sure they are open... then the
next thing would be the cam bearing might be spun or
installed wrong(the holes not lined up) in the #2
and #4 cam journals.... keep the rocker shafts off
till you figure out whats hapening

Re: Small block oiling question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1348569
12/09/12 07:52 PM
12/09/12 07:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline OP
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Thanks MrPeabody,
this motor has never been fired since the being built.my bet would be the cam bearings
though i will put a rod down both feed holes to confirm
Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: tex013] #1348570
12/09/12 07:59 PM
12/09/12 07:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Thanks MrPeabody,
this motor has never been fired since the being built.my bet would be the cam bearings
though i will put a rod down both feed holes to confirm
Tex




The only way you will know is if you slowly turn the
crank with the rod down the hole you should see it
drop in when the cam hole lines up... its too close
to measure based on distance(thickness of the cam bearing...
but its strange that both sides dont oil.. thats 2
different bearings

Re: Small block oiling question [Re: tex013] #1348571
12/09/12 08:13 PM
12/09/12 08:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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The only other thing I can think of is the head gaskets...
put on wrong BUT if they are then the alignment pins
arent in there

Re: Small block oiling question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1348572
12/09/12 08:27 PM
12/09/12 08:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline OP
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MrPeabody,
if you didn't know about the the bearing feed i guess both bearing could be wrong.
Head gasket i would have thought even without dowels the alignment would be close enough - maybe not.
thanks again

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: tex013] #1348573
12/09/12 09:10 PM
12/09/12 09:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline OP
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tex013  Offline OP
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MrPeabody,
are there supposed to be necked headbolts with the eddy head ?

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: tex013] #1348574
12/09/12 09:14 PM
12/09/12 09:14 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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Florida
what yr engine block? what cam? some of the magnum roller cams are not drilled to oil the LA rockers.

some magnum blocks are not drilled to oil LA rockers.

IIRC,magnum head gaskets would block the oil feed on a LA block.


Re: Small block oiling question [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1348575
12/09/12 09:49 PM
12/09/12 09:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline OP
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ok,thanks for the reply
engine casting date appears to be 24 4 90
casting number - 53008921360
if this is a magnum block you would need pushrod oiling plus don't the magnum motors use a pedestal type rocker similar to a chev ?
looking down where the oil feed port in the head is you can see the head bolt,ptting a rod down there only goes about 1 1/2"

Tex

Last edited by Tex013; 12/09/12 10:25 PM.

New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: tex013] #1348576
12/09/12 10:13 PM
12/09/12 10:13 PM
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Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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moper Offline
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Columbia, CT
Two thoughts on this - either the cam bearings are not in properly (I've found a couple brands that the holes will block off as much as 1/2 the feed hole...) Ort he hardeware that holds the rocker shafts down could be closking the passage in the heads. Pull the rocker shafts and see if there's any oil coming up when you preoil and turn the engine over. If not, I'd pull the cam out...


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: moper] #1348577
12/09/12 10:26 PM
12/09/12 10:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline OP
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there is no oil with the shafts off

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: tex013] #1348578
12/09/12 10:27 PM
12/09/12 10:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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moper Offline
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Columbia, CT
Then it's in the bearings or gasket...


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: moper] #1348579
12/09/12 10:31 PM
12/09/12 10:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline OP
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or magnum block not drilled

thanks

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: tex013] #1348580
12/09/12 10:32 PM
12/09/12 10:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

ok,thanks for the reply
engine casting date appears to be 24 4 90
casting number - 53008921360
if this is a magnum block you would need pushrod oiling plus don't the magnum motors use a pedestal type rocker similar to a chev ?
looking down where the oil feed port in the head is you can see the head bolt,ptting a rod down there only goes about 1 1/2"

Tex




you have some issues if you can only get a rod down
1 1/2" or so.... its either running into the head
gasket or its not drilled.... being thats the case
(only getting the rod in 1 1/2") get ready to pull
the heads... either your gaskets dont have a hole OR
the block is a magnum type and that uses PR oiling
EDIT
Pull the intake and see if the bosses are there on
#2 and #4 cam journals going up to the head area in
the block

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 12/09/12 10:35 PM.
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1348581
12/09/12 11:18 PM
12/09/12 11:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline OP
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Mr Peabody,

thanks
will discuss with owner

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: tex013] #1348582
12/09/12 11:27 PM
12/09/12 11:27 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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Joined: May 2003
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Florida
Quote:

ok,thanks for the reply
engine casting date appears to be 24 4 90
casting number - 53008921360
if this is a magnum block you would need pushrod oiling plus don't the magnum motors use a pedestal type rocker similar to a chev ?
looking down where the oil feed port in the head is you can see the head bolt,ptting a rod down there only goes about 1 1/2"

Tex




90 would be a pre-mag roller cam block. it would be drilled for rocker shaft oiling.

the stock cam would also be drilled for rocker shaft oiling.

if aftermarket roller cam...may or may not be drilled

90 would also be oiling thru the block/heads LA style and thru hollow PRs with oil thru roller lifters. (gearing up for the magnum change over)

does it have a roller cam with roller lifters?

sounds like it is pointing toward the head gaskets, they could be for a magnum and blocking the passage to the head.

Re: Small block oiling question [Re: tex013] #1348583
12/10/12 12:38 AM
12/10/12 12:38 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Pull one head


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: Cab_Burge] #1348584
12/10/12 01:02 AM
12/10/12 01:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline OP
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tex013  Offline OP
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Posts: 2,459
Sydney,Australia
Cab,
that will be this arvo or tomorrow morning


Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: tex013] #1348585
12/10/12 08:38 AM
12/10/12 08:38 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 169
Finland, Europe
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Ck[FIN] Offline
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Finland, Europe
I bought new edelbrock aluminium heads few years ago and didnt get any oil to the rockers at first. Oil passage in the head was not drilled through so the blockage was in the head.


-1965 Valiant 9.03s 358cu.in R5P7-
Re: Small block oiling question [Re: Ck[FIN]] #1348586
12/11/12 06:32 PM
12/11/12 06:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11 Offline
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the oil go from the block, up past the head bolt, then along the bolt to a passage that goes up to the pedestal? I would think it'd be pretty difficult to get a piece of wire down past the head bolt and into the lower hole that lines up with the hole in the deck surface. Only way to know is to pull a head and check things out that way. I think the magnum head gaskets are drilled, but in case they aren't and you aren't sure if you have magnum gaskets or not, the magnum head gaskets have areas that the pushrods go through. Separate holes for each pushrod that is. If they misaligned the holes in the cam bearings then the cam won't be receiving oil either. If I remember correctly there's three holes per bearing on #2 and 4, so as long as the hole up from the main lines up, you'll have oil to the deck as well. I think I would disassemble the whole engine. Doesn't sound like the most trustworthy builder.







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