This is something of an offshoot of my post where I had the pictures of my modified oil pan, windage tray & crank scraper here.

Even though the pan is Milodon's version of the Street Hemi pan advertised as 6 quarts + filter, someone on the other thread asked whether the oil level was above the main sump baffle level with 6 qts in the pan. I didn't know, but I had ran the MP version of that pan previously w/ only 5 qts + filter (6 total in the system) because the OEM dip stick said that amount matched the "full" mark. I can verify that oil pressure up to 7000 RPM was pretty steady on the dyno and never saw any pressure-related issues running it that way until I got caught off guard w/ an oil leak.

Regardless, I set up the new pan w/ the rail horizontal to my work surface and started adding fluid 1 pint at a time to get an idea where the level ended up w/ respect to the main sump baffle:
- at 9 pints (4.5 quarts), the fluid level was just even w/ the edge of the baffle
- at 10 pints (5 quarts), it was sitting .1-.2" above the baffle (depending upon exactly where I measured it)
- at 11 pints (5.5 quarts), it was .35-.50" above...
- at 12 pints (6 quarts), it was .50-.65" above...

At that point I placed a used oil pan gasket and a 440 Source windage tray on the pan to check whether the tray was above, at, or below the oil level with 6 quarts in the pan. What I verified was the fluid was just starting to creep up into the louvres on the bottom of the tray.

This leads me to ask the question I posted in the subject line: How much oil gets "trapped" in a running engine? It's obvious that a 440 w/ 6 qts of oil + 1 in the filter surely isn't holding a full 6 quarts in the sump when spinning 6000+ RPM... but how much would you expect there to be?

In reading my old "Grumpy" Jenkins SBC racing engine book, he commented that their dry-sump system had evolved to a level of efficiency where they'd see the the oil level in the sump only drop 1/2 quart with the engine running at a pretty high RPM, as I recall.

But that doesn't give me a good understanding of how much a simple wet-sump system would be expected to "lose" to all the other places inside the engine where the oil would be flowing & collecting... And having a better feel for that would help me in coming up w/ a more educated guess-timate of how much oil should really be run w/ my new oil system mods.

Thoughts / experiences? Thanks.

running my oil pump on an engine stand, with the milodon deep kickout pan, three quarts won't build pressure, but four will. pretty consistent from engine to engine. i think between 3 and 4 quarts typically. god only knows at high speed. windage is amazingly powerful. when i was in college, another school in the midwest had done an experiment on a hemi, running the engine on an engine dyno with a transparent oil pan. it was literally pulling oil out of the pan and wrapping it around the crank at high rpm. i don't remember the specifics, but it was something like 6-8 quarts at 8000 rpm.

Brad, start the motor up and check the oil level at a idle, do it several times and see what the dipstick shows. One of the dyno shops I used in SO CA thought I was crazy to add a quart of oil to a 440 on the dyno, I had put 4 quarts in a 402 oil pan plus I always fill the oil filter up until it won't hold anymore, I fill the oil filter several times until it won't take anymore oil, and then install it on the oil pump for breaking in the cam, I'm cheap on some things I ended up doing several dnyo pulls after changing the oil and filter with 4 quarts in the pan plus filling the oil filter up in there dyno room on the dyno and then after making those pulls with 4 quarts in the pan, I added the fifth quart, no loss of HP or torque. The dyno guys where shocked I told them, this ain't no dang gum Chebby V8 motor My airplane motor (260 HP O540 Lycoming) needed to sit overnight to get all the oil drainback into the sump to measure it accurately cold (SP?) I blew a lot of oil out the vent tube before figuring that out, it held 12 quarts in the sump, it would blow the first quart out in 20 minutes of flying at WOT, 1 hour to blow out the second quart and 3 or more hours to blow the third quart out I ended up running it with 10 quarts cold and keeping it above the 9 quart mark when checking it hot. I ended up checking it on one trip 1 hour after landing and then checking it the next day before flying it, it had drain down another quart overnight Same thing on the race car, it gains oil overnight versus checking it five mintues after shutting it off with hot oil I remember one of the Mopar drag race engineers, Mr Hoover maybe, saying at one of the drag seminars I attended years go saying the BB Mopar motors had at least 3 quarts of oil suspenped in the motor when racing above 5000 RPM That is one of the reason I make and use crankshaft scrapers now

Caveat: I am just a hobby mechanic...

I believe that 440source tray allows up to 4.25" stroke, and as a result is really tall. Can you explain why you didn't modify your original tray? I am no expert but wonder if there is an advantage to having the tray close to the crank, to help reduce the volume where oil mist spins around the crank.

I have read many of your posts, but don't remember...do you use the E-RPMs? My feeling is that they hold a fair amount of oil up in the head. I don't know if this was intentional, but the oil drain back holes are simple drilled holes, and my observation when pulling the valve covers was oil pooled between the drain back hole and the valve cover rail. Last time I had my heads off, I chambered the lower edge of the drain back hole, which really reduced the amount of oil stuck up in the head.

Sorry but I don't have a clue on the answer to your question.

Back in the day we were all running huge oil pans in superstock. Most of them were Frankenstein homemade creations that did not leave a lot of ground clearance. Right about the time there were rule changes allowing big roller cams, larger tires ect,the big oil pan became a problem due to more wheel stands and oil pan carnage. Along came the synthetics. Just about everyone went to smaller oil pans with the new oils, the thought was that there was more protection and it was alright to run 6 to 7 qts. I started to have a large problem with oil pressure loss on decel. After fooling around with different baffles,trap doors,scrapers and windage trays,nothing seemed to totally eliminate the problem. Finally, I decided to look at the engine and any place I could drill a drain hole in the lifter valley near the cam tunnel I did with a 9/32" bit and a 1/2" chamfer. I had heard other people were doing this. Never had a problem again. I'll bet close to a qt of oil sits up there after a run( smallblock). Most of you guys are probably aware of this, I was just throwing it out there.

We run a BAE hemi in a 2wd pull truck. 16 qt wet sump. We just put a racepak on for the last pull of the year. When we looked at the data it showed a massive drop in oil pressure just before the end of the run. You could see it come back up as we were getting unhooked and going off the track. I have talked to several people about this and most say it is very normal. KB billet pump/70wt oil.

At 7000 rpm's a stock 426 hemi has 5 qt's of oil in the heads

Find a spare oil pan plug.... drill & tap it for a 3/8 npt hose barb... install clear pvc hose on barb & tie it up above the pan rail... fill pan to what ever level you want to test... run engine @ rpm idle to max, look & see where the oil level falls to in the tube, it works best with hot oil, some of you 5 quart guys may be

One thing to remember on a Big Block Mopar,with the big pump & lines in a 1/4 mile it does not matter what kind of mods you make none of the oil pumped up in the engine is going to make it back down to oil pick up in time to be of any help.So what you have to make sure is you have what oil is left in the pan trapped over the oil pump.