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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1345832
12/04/12 03:40 PM
12/04/12 03:40 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
My first guess is that the tranny, TKO-500, is sitting lower then a stock tranny to fit in the tunnel. I can jack the tranny up about 1/2" which really helps the shaker, but then it is hitting the floor hump.
ding ding ding .... WINNER , this is the problem with the TKO KIT.
Instead of mickey mousing it you should have trimmed and expanded whatever needs to be trimmed and/or expanded and set the engine at the proper angle.
Now you need to check your driveshaft and pinion angle and how is your fan in relation to the radiator ???
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: JohnRR]
#1345833
12/04/12 06:25 PM
12/04/12 06:25 PM
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Mass
DAYCLONA
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Quote:
Quote:
My first guess is that the tranny, TKO-500, is sitting lower then a stock tranny to fit in the tunnel. I can jack the tranny up about 1/2" which really helps the shaker, but then it is hitting the floor hump.
ding ding ding .... WINNER , this is the problem with the TKO KIT.
Instead of mickey mousing it you should have trimmed and expanded whatever needs to be trimmed and/or expanded and set the engine at the proper angle.
Now you need to check your driveshaft and pinion angle and how is your fan in relation to the radiator ???
I was just going to "parrot" this same comment  .....you need to establish the proper driveline angle, I don't care who's TKO 500/600 kit you have, as there are several vendors, the Shaker gap is the least of your worries right now, you can either clearance the floor, and/or trim any excess casting tabs/flanges not needed on the tranny that may be hitting the floor and preventing you from establishing the proper driveline angle, the proper angle is when your transmission/engine centerline is on the same parallel as your STOCK rear pinion angle, and your driveshaft exhibits a 1-2 degree deflection between these two components....buy an inclination meter/scale
mike
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: JohnRR]
#1345834
12/04/12 08:04 PM
12/04/12 08:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
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Quote:
Quote:
My first guess is that the tranny, TKO-500, is sitting lower then a stock tranny to fit in the tunnel. I can jack the tranny up about 1/2" which really helps the shaker, but then it is hitting the floor hump.
ding ding ding .... WINNER , this is the problem with the TKO KIT.
Instead of mickey mousing it you should have trimmed and expanded whatever needs to be trimmed and/or expanded and set the engine at the proper angle.
Now you need to check your driveshaft and pinion angle and how is your fan in relation to the radiator ???
Well I didn't mickey mouse it, I put in the tranny using the mount and cross member that came with it. That is easier said then done when you don't have a motor at the time of mock up to check it. The fan does clear, but it is close. I did redo the tunnel on the side to fit the tranny, but didn't do anything to the top to raise the tranny cause no one ever said it needed to. Would have been super easy to do when the car was all apart and the floor. Now it is all pained inside and out and I would rather not cut the floor apart again. The kit came with its own cross member so I thought it was suppose to be at the right hieght. Seems like no one can make anything right anymore.
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1345835
12/04/12 08:42 PM
12/04/12 08:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101
Ont, Canada
moparo
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There should have been a drawing detailing the area on the floor which needs to be cut out.
Last edited by moparo; 12/04/12 08:45 PM.
performancecarrestorations.com
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: moparo]
#1345836
12/04/12 09:23 PM
12/04/12 09:23 PM
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Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
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Quote:
There should have been a drawing detailing the area on the floor which needs to be cut out.
Yes their was. All it has to do with is cutting the side of the tunnel, nothing to raise the tranny. The tranny fits as it is suppose to with the supplied crossmemeber and mount. Guess the problem is that it is designed to drop the tranny lower then stock maybe to gain clearance. If that is the case I am in a real pickle 
I fit the tranny using the supplied crossmember long ago when the car was taken apart. Modifing the floor to clear the side of it.
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Grizzly]
#1345838
12/05/12 11:37 AM
12/05/12 11:37 AM
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Wisconsin
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Quote:
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Guess the problem is that it is designed to drop the tranny lower then stock maybe to gain clearance. If that is the case I am in a real pickle
Yes, I would really hate to be in your shoes right now.
Your photos certainly tell the story. Put the ball in their court: send them these pics and see if they will do something about it.
Yea right. It fits, it just isn't right.....
If someone could give me a measurement of a stock tail shaft to the floor or from a straigth line across the bottom of the rockers or something would really be great. Shouldn't matter if it is auto or 4 speed. Would just like to get something to compare to what I have to see how far it is really off. Then I can contact them with some concrete evidence. If not for a shaker hood it wouldn't be too big of a deal and I would probably never have known.
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1345839
12/05/12 12:00 PM
12/05/12 12:00 PM
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Posts: 75,012
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My first guess is that the tranny, TKO-500, is sitting lower then a stock tranny to fit in the tunnel. I can jack the tranny up about 1/2" which really helps the shaker, but then it is hitting the floor hump.
ding ding ding .... WINNER , this is the problem with the TKO KIT.
Instead of mickey mousing it you should have trimmed and expanded whatever needs to be trimmed and/or expanded and set the engine at the proper angle.
Now you need to check your driveshaft and pinion angle and how is your fan in relation to the radiator ???
Well I didn't mickey mouse it, I put in the tranny using the mount and cross member that came with it. That is easier said then done when you don't have a motor at the time of mock up to check it. The fan does clear, but it is close. I did redo the tunnel on the side to fit the tranny, but didn't do anything to the top to raise the tranny cause no one ever said it needed to. Would have been super easy to do when the car was all apart and the floor. Now it is all pained inside and out and I would rather not cut the floor apart again. The kit came with its own cross member so I thought it was suppose to be at the right hieght. Seems like no one can make anything right anymore.
I guess you never read anything on the internet , or this site , about that kit.
I never said your install was mickey mouse , I was saying not to mickey mouse the repair.
But I must be a physic because I just saw your thread looking for a ring to put on the carb air horn ...
A friend of mine did the same thing , and I TOLD him when he asked me before even painting the car to install the trans to an empty block and check the trans angle and modify the floor as necessary.
Months later I get a call with an issue just like you have ...
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Grizzly]
#1345840
12/05/12 12:05 PM
12/05/12 12:05 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Put the ball in their court: send them these pics and see if they will do something about it.
Seriously ??? 
Kiesler caters to the worst possible market , MOPAR OWNERS , even guys with 4 door, slant 6 darts do not want to make a cut on the floor ...
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1345843
12/05/12 02:22 PM
12/05/12 02:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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Quote:
Well I did read on the forums and knew that the floor had to be moded on the passenger side to make it fit correct. That was no issue I did it. I didn't see it mensioned anywhere that the mount that is supplied with the kit actually drops the the tail shaft of the tranny below stock height which tips the engine back. The only way I would have know is to fully assemble the car shaker and all. I did have the tranny mounted in the car when doing the floor work, but how was I to know that the crossmember supplied drops the tranny.
I am not trying to blame anyone, just thinking of solutions. My first choice it going to be to raise the tunnel, but I have to see if I can hide it under the consel or not. Just exploring options is all.
By the way it did not come from Keisler
If you had searched any of the Mopar Forums for TKO500/600 installs, I've clearly stated for perhaps the last 10 years on various sites that, that ANY TKO 500/600 install needs to have the drivelinr angle re-established, and a factory 4spd hump used, A,B,or E body....
I'll measure my 71 E body 4spd factory equipped car tonight for you to determine a "starting" point for you to re-establish a proper driveline angle,...bite the bullet and correct this issue now...
Allmost all of the kits offered on the market today are based on the initial Keisler design of over a decade ago, while Keisler has continiously improved their design over the years, others have not, only a select few have improved apon their initial offering
mike
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1345844
12/05/12 02:42 PM
12/05/12 02:42 PM
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Wisconsin
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Quote:
Quote:
Well I did read on the forums and knew that the floor had to be moded on the passenger side to make it fit correct. That was no issue I did it. I didn't see it mensioned anywhere that the mount that is supplied with the kit actually drops the the tail shaft of the tranny below stock height which tips the engine back. The only way I would have know is to fully assemble the car shaker and all. I did have the tranny mounted in the car when doing the floor work, but how was I to know that the crossmember supplied drops the tranny.
I am not trying to blame anyone, just thinking of solutions. My first choice it going to be to raise the tunnel, but I have to see if I can hide it under the consel or not. Just exploring options is all.
By the way it did not come from Keisler
If you had searched any of the Mopar Forums for TKO500/600 installs, I've clearly stated for perhaps the last 10 years on various sites that, that ANY TKO 500/600 install needs to have the drivelinr angle re-established, and a factory 4spd hump used, A,B,or E body....
I'll measure my 71 E body 4spd factory equipped car tonight for you to determine a "starting" point for you to re-establish a proper driveline angle,...bite the bullet and correct this issue now...
Allmost all of the kits offered on the market today are based on the initial Keisler design of over a decade ago, while Keisler has continiously improved their design over the years, others have not, only a select few have improved apon their initial offering
mike
I have read the post and know about the drive line angle issues. I guess never thought about or heard it mensioned how much it droped the tail shaft and tipped the motor back which messes with the shaker.
I do have a 4 speed hump and did modify the passenger side of it to fit the tranny. To go up anymore I think the entire hump with have to be rasied up. I have no problem doing it just really hate to start screwing up paint at this point.
I appreciate the measurement. I want to know how far it is actually off so I can see how extensive the mods will have to be. Might be such a thing as I have to gain a little on the tranny and a little on the air cleaner.
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: astjp2]
#1345846
12/05/12 03:10 PM
12/05/12 03:10 PM
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Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
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Quote:
You could alwasy put shear plates under the carbs to get the spacing you need...once you fix the alignment issues. What motor mounts are you using? You might be able to shim the K-member an 1/8 to 1/4 depending on what spindles you have. Tim
All are options. I want to start with the tranny and see what I can get their. I would rather redo the bottom of the air cleaner base then put shims under the carbs. The shims I think would be pretty visable, plus they would actually have to be tappered to work.
Could shime the K-Frame down but then the entire shaker would sit too low. The back has to come up, no other way around it. Motor mounts are stock.
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1345847
12/05/12 04:03 PM
12/05/12 04:03 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Well I did read on the forums and knew that the floor had to be moded on the passenger side to make it fit correct. That was no issue I did it. I didn't see it mensioned anywhere that the mount that is supplied with the kit actually drops the the tail shaft of the tranny below stock height which tips the engine back. The only way I would have know is to fully assemble the car shaker and all. I did have the tranny mounted in the car when doing the floor work, but how was I to know that the crossmember supplied drops the tranny.
I am not trying to blame anyone, just thinking of solutions. My first choice it going to be to raise the tunnel, but I have to see if I can hide it under the consel or not. Just exploring options is all.
By the way it did not come from Keisler
I hate to Monday morning QB this but it's pretty easy to tell that the mount supplied by Kiesler changes the driveline angle. I don't think you have to raise the whole tunnel , you should be able to get most of the upward travel you need from cutting the crossmember out and adding in a rolled piece of flat stock in it's place? Dayclona can answer that better.
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: JohnRR]
#1345848
12/05/12 05:07 PM
12/05/12 05:07 PM
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Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
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Quote:
I hate to Monday morning QB this but it's pretty easy to tell that the mount supplied by Kiesler changes the driveline angle. I don't think you have to raise the whole tunnel , you should be able to get most of the upward travel you need from cutting the crossmember out and adding in a rolled piece of flat stock in it's place? Dayclona can answer that better.
Well it is pretty hard to tell when you don't have an original tranny, engine, or crossmember to know. Car was a shell when I got it. Anyways the cross member it not the issue, I can shim the tranny up about 3/8" then the top of the tranny hits the tunnel, that is the problem.
In my opinion they should state very clearly that the output shaft is being dropped X inches with this crossmember. They should also offer a cross member that keeps it at the right height and leave the problem of fitting the floor to the customer. Oh well, guess I can't say much yet until I check the drive line angle and get a dimension on where it should be, maybe it is not that far off.....
Again this did not come from KIESLER, I have never delt with them. Could be the same mount I have no idea.
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1345849
12/05/12 06:30 PM
12/05/12 06:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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Quote:
Quote:
I hate to Monday morning QB this but it's pretty easy to tell that the mount supplied by Kiesler changes the driveline angle. I don't think you have to raise the whole tunnel , you should be able to get most of the upward travel you need from cutting the crossmember out and adding in a rolled piece of flat stock in it's place? Dayclona can answer that better.
Well it is pretty hard to tell when you don't have an original tranny, engine, or crossmember to know. Car was a shell when I got it. Anyways the cross member it not the issue, I can shim the tranny up about 3/8" then the top of the tranny hits the tunnel, that is the problem.
In my opinion they should state very clearly that the output shaft is being dropped X inches with this crossmember. They should also offer a cross member that keeps it at the right height and leave the problem of fitting the floor to the customer. Oh well, guess I can't say much yet until I check the drive line angle and get a dimension on where it should be, maybe it is not that far off.....
Again this did not come from KIESLER, I have never delt with them. Could be the same mount I have no idea.
Regardless of who's kit you have, I don't care if you name the vendor, they have all copied the original Keisler design, and whether they have altered it or not, all the kits out there have compromised driveline angle to appease the purist (esp the Mopar crowd) who don't want to modify the floor board/hump, that being reiterated...
I measured my 71 Challenger, factory 4spd set up, all factory parts,...measuring from the output shaft centerline at the tailshaft to the top of the tranny sheetmetal hump (the hump center in the car is the same, 4spd or auto, as this is part of the original floor that is not cut for a 4 spd hump, factory or not) is approx 3 1/2"...now sheetmetal can vary between vehicles, so I also measured from the inboard transmission crossmember bolt, up to the tailshaft/output centerline, this is approx 3", now the TKO is slightly longer, your wheelbase is 2" shorter than a Challenger so keep this in mind when setting your driveline angle,...forget about the Shaker gap, don't use that as the criteria for setting the engine, if you know the rear pinion is set at factory angle, use that as your guidline in establishing the proper angle for the engine/tranny, you have to do this with the car sitting at ride height/suspension loaded, a 4 post drive on lift helps....your rear piniom should be between 3-5 degrees, do purchase an inclination meter, otherwise your just guessing...The engine/transmission need to be on parallel planes with one another, you want no more than a 2 degree deflection angle on the driveshaft based on whatever your pinion angle measures out at, otherwise driveline vibration will be your next problem, along with accelerated U joint failure...
be prepared to pull the transmission, and don't be afraid of cutting off bosses/flanges etc off the tranny to accommodate clearance needed, you may find that between massaging the tunnel/hump with a BFH and trimming the transmission down of excess casting that you can tuck it up higher...the early TKO kits (regardless of vendor) left the tranny untouched, with the exception of where the shifter was to be relocated, the TKO is a very tall case, the main areas of interferance in the E body tunnel are the passenger side along the top of the case to floor, lots of trimming can be done to remove unneeded tabs/flanges/casting on the tranny, the next problem area is the transmission crossmember brace that follows the floor/hump, I find that if you trim off the casting fin along the top of the tailshaft, you can gain considerable upward movement of the tailshaft, the relocated shift tower, make sure that is coming thru the factory 4 spd shifter opening with out hitting any of the surrounding sheetmetal in the opening....and being a BBlk (HEMI) application be sure to check the bellhousing to firewall/floor flange, you may need to bend some of the lip forward towards the front of car, as you relocate the transmission tailshaft higher into the car, I'll assume your using Schummacher swap mounts?...they can sometimes sit the engine higher, further complicating the matter, you may find yourself shimming the K frame lower, and raising the tailshaft to find that "happy place" for all the components involved...I've done quite a few TKO swaps, A.B.E smblk/BBlk/HEMI, Schummacher mounts, etc....or factory stuff, floor mods and tranny trimming are a must to tuck the tranny up there, but I've never had to hack a transmiision floor crossmember up,...you will need to fab a spacer between the transmission and the supplied transmission mout when you have achieved the desired/proper driveline angle.
Mike
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: AARCONV]
#1345853
12/06/12 12:08 AM
12/06/12 12:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
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I've done a few of these E-body 5-spd conversions and you really need to follow Dayclona's advise. You will be happier later on down the road. Get the angles right and the shaker will fall into place.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1345855
12/08/12 01:53 AM
12/08/12 01:53 AM
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Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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Brent,
6 1/2" overall was what I got approx on my 71 Challenger, it's a 77,000 original mile car, with ALL original rustfree sheetmetal/floors/framerails/etc never hit, I've owned it for 32 years....
By your pics it's obvious the tranny is way to0 low, the shift tower isn't even protruding thru the floor,... not counting the shifter "nub", just the shift tower itself, it should protrude at least 1-2" above a factory floor floor hump after obtaining the proper driveline angke...I would concentrate your effort on getting the tranny tucked as high as you can, to determined how much you can either shim the rear leaf perches, or cut/reweld them...you can't determine that until you have a value on the tranny to work with,...8 degrees down on the pinion is on the excessive side, 5 degrees down is about avg on a Mopar/leaf equipped car, as axle wind up brings the pinion up approx 4 degrees under acceleration...get the tranny angle worked out first, so that the engine sits "right"...if you can get about an 1" more height that should bring the tranny angle to about 1 degree down, which IMHO is ideal
mike
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1345858
12/08/12 01:33 PM
12/08/12 01:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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Quote:
I am going to work at is more thismorning and see what I can do, I am hoping to get 1-1/2" or so up on the tranny.
Clarification on the rear pinion angle, are you saying it will roll up 4deg under accell?
I guess the question I have is if the tranny is still 1deg down, wouldn't I want the pinion at 3deg down so it ends up 1deg up under accel. I will probably move the spring perch rather then use shims.
Do what you need to correct the angle, as I mentioned previously in the beginning of the thread, I estimate based on your pics, you'll probably gain no more than 3/4" without further trimming of the transmission tailshaft housing and assorted bosses,...you don't want the tranny too high, 1 degree down as it resides in the chassis would be ideal, but obtain what you can to balance out the Shaker issues as well....the rear pinion on a leaf spring car should always be pointed downward in relation to the driveline angle, as it will rotate upward an avg of 2-4 degrees upon acceleration (depending on many factors, esp spring windup, or lack of it, but assume the max, 4 degrees) So when I posted that driveline angle pic showing the relationship between tranny/driveshaft/pinion, that is in operational/acceration mode...don't be leary of using the Mopar Performance axle perch wedges to correct the rear pinion, I've used up to 4 degrees with no issues, although that's the max I would use....as to your last question regarding the driveline angles, yes that's the ideal situation if the tranny was 1 degree down, but even at that point, it's an initial setting, as you really don't know how much axle/spring wind-up you have, so a real world drive will determine if any vibration in the driveline exists during acceleration or de-acceleration, that will give you a final determination as to whether the pinion needs to go up or down a degree or 2 more, sure it's a lot of aggravation, but in the long run it extends the life of not just the U joints, but the pinion gear, yoke flanges, transmission bearings, syncros, etc...to let it go unchecked, or corrected just invites failure down the road, even if you feel no vibration, if the driveline is over extended in angle operation, wear of all the components involved will be accelerated, some very costly..
I've "been there, done that"...it can be aggravating at times, esp when you think it's licked, but you'll be a happy camper with a 5spd when it's finally dialed in right...PS I hope you dial indicated the bellhousing bore to the crank centerline, if not, now's the time to do it
Mike
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: faud88]
#1345859
12/08/12 01:47 PM
12/08/12 01:47 PM
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Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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Quote:
I have very similar issue with a 70 Challenger TKO. I put in spacers between the base plate to bring the bubble up. I have driven the car 50-60 miles with no problems and the relation of the fan to the radiatior has no issues. What can go wrong if I don't make the proper adjustments with the tranny?
Paul, if you don't know what relationship your driveline components are operating at, whether you feel vibration or not, isn't healthy for the longevity of your driveline, if your drive line phasing (the angle of the components in operation) and the U joint angle measured between the two joints is greater than 3 to 4 degrees constantly, your just accelerating the fatigue of the components involved.
Driveline angles, unchecked/unknown/uncorrected is behaps the biggest reason for most of these 5/6 spd swaps disappointments and failures, along with improper, or never performed bellhousing dial-in
mike
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1345860
12/08/12 06:33 PM
12/08/12 06:33 PM
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Wisconsin
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Wisconsin
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Ok after much beating and cutting on a really nice floor pan  I can gain a 1" shim between the tranny mount and cross member, this raised the tail shaft 1-1/4". The tail shaft is now only about 1/8" from hitting the the crossmember support that is under the floor. If I cut out that support I could gain maybe another 1/2" But what I did gain only gained me about 1/2 deg of angle, I am now at 3-1/2 deg down instead of 4 deg. So I am never going to get to 1 deg unless I stick the enitre tranny up through the floor. I don't see how any more can be taken off the tranny in this area to gain me anything either, so I think I am at the max I can get. But reguarless isn't the real important thing the relation of tranny to rear end. So if I would get the rear end at 0 degs it would be the best case?   
Last edited by Mopar_Mudder; 12/08/12 06:41 PM.
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1345863
12/08/12 09:22 PM
12/08/12 09:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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That's a big improvement over what you had, Tom's suggestion (70HEMIGTX) is a good idea, loosen up the motor mount bolts and see iff some movement occures to settle the motor down, sure it may be little, but everything helps, another alternative is to shim the K frame down, but I wouldn't go crazy, as you'll start screwing with suspension geometry, steering angle, etc, but a slight shimming could nose the motor down, but this will increase the distance of the Shaker base/seal from sealing under the hood, so you may need carb base, or neck spacers, depending on what perimeters you achieve...but it could help to further achieve the desired angle, and level off the Shaker perimeter gap
the current degree reading you have now is kind of relative to how level you have the car blocked in relation to the frame rails to the ground, once you think you've achieved the highest relocation of the tranny, shim/block the chassis level, but maintain that the car is still sitting on it's suspension, then measure the driveline angle off the oil pan rail, or the rear flange of the tailshaft housing measuring vertically on the flange end where the output shaft exits, use this new angle to now set the pinion up as discussed earlier...
You did good!...BTW that looks like a Classic MotorSports/Hurst Industries (Summit) 5spd set up?...yes/no
Mike
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1345864
12/09/12 12:00 AM
12/09/12 12:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
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Quote:
You did good!...BTW that looks like a Classic MotorSports/Hurst Industries (Summit) 5spd set up?...yes/no
Mike
It is a Hurst yes.
All of my measurements have been done with the car sitting on the suspension. The front is set at the factory ride height. Wheels are sitting up on blocks with center of wheel to the floor distances all the same. I have put 200# in the car and about 70# in the trunk to try and make up for no interior or gas in the tank. Based on top of tire to wheel well it is siting level. Oh and the floor is level also.
I have been getting the angle from the machined surface on the end of the tail shaft, I can try and check the oil pan also.
I will try out the motor mount bolts also and see if anything gives at all.
I thought of shimming the K-Frame but would rather not if I didn't have to. Just got all the caster / camber ect all set up, what a PITA. Also the front of the shaker looks about perfect, hate to lower it.
As it sits right now the back of the shaker needs to come up about 1/4" to get to what I would call looking good. I think I can get that now just by doing some tweeking and bending on the base plate, so I am feeling better about where that is at.
Going to try and get at it tommarow but don't know if it will happen, it is the wife birthday after all.
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1345866
12/09/12 07:51 PM
12/09/12 07:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
Got to mess around with it some thismorning and got exact measurement. The actual tranny angle is 3.28 deg down, I get about 3.5 on my angle finder so it is close.
Got the new floor patch made and ready to weld in.
What would you shoot for on the rear end angle now that the tranny angle is done. Forgot that I did try the motor mount bolts yet, but I don't see that changing the angle much. But I will recheck it when I do.
If you still read 8 degrees nose down on the pinion, before you reweld the perches, if that's you intent, do that when you've driven the car and finalized the pinion angle needed, in the mean time, you could install a Mopar Performance 3 or 4 degree wedge between the leaf and axle perch, (I'd start with 3) to rotate the pinion up somewhat from the current 8 to 5, drive the car see how it feels on acceleration/de-acceleration, be sure to measure the driveshaft/u joint degrees as well, 1 degree minimum, 3 degrees max deflection, taking into account pimion rotation under acceleration...after test driving the car, if you have/feel some driveline vibration, if it's on acceleration, more downward degrees need on the pinion, if it's on de-acceleration, raise the pinion, make only 1 degree changes at a time, I'd suggest you buy the Mopar Performance multi shim rear axle degree kit,...depending on how many you stack in there, plus how your leafs were built, you may need to add a longer pin/bolt assy to properly locate the perch hole, as the shims will eat up the height of the alignment pin/bolt for the perch,...then when you have everything squared away, you can relocate the perches to the desired angle and weld them in a finialized position...and eliminate the wedges 
Mike
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1345867
12/09/12 08:18 PM
12/09/12 08:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
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Quote:
Quote:
Got to mess around with it some thismorning and got exact measurement. The actual tranny angle is 3.28 deg down, I get about 3.5 on my angle finder so it is close.
Got the new floor patch made and ready to weld in.
What would you shoot for on the rear end angle now that the tranny angle is done. Forgot that I did try the motor mount bolts yet, but I don't see that changing the angle much. But I will recheck it when I do.
If you still read 8 degrees nose down on the pinion, before you reweld the perches, if that's you intent, do that when you've driven the car and finalized the pinion angle needed, in the mean time, you could install a Mopar Performance 3 or 4 degree wedge between the leaf and axle perch, (I'd start with 3) to rotate the pinion up somewhat from the current 8 to 5, drive the car see how it feels on acceleration/de-acceleration, be sure to measure the driveshaft/u joint degrees as well, 1 degree minimum, 3 degrees max deflection, taking into account pimion rotation under acceleration...after test driving the car, if you have/feel some driveline vibration, if it's on acceleration, more downward degrees need on the pinion, if it's on de-acceleration, raise the pinion, make only 1 degree changes at a time, I'd suggest you buy the Mopar Performance multi shim rear axle degree kit,...depending on how many you stack in there, plus how your leafs were built, you may need to add a longer pin/bolt assy to properly locate the perch hole, as the shims will eat up the height of the alignment pin/bolt for the perch,...then when you have everything squared away, you can relocate the perches to the desired angle and weld them in a finialized position...and eliminate the wedges
Mike
Thanks for the thoughts, good idea to shim and test first. Are the Mopar shims the aluminum kind? I really prefer not to use them because I have had them crack before. When I do shims I always make them out of steel and actually bolt them in with the spring pack using a longer center pin. That way no chance of them going any where.
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1345869
12/10/12 12:31 AM
12/10/12 12:31 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Mopar Performance shims are steel, you may need to order addition degree shims seperately, along with the shim kit, IIRC the shim kit has 6 shims (3 pairs) 1,2,3, degrees each, and 1,2,3, are available seperately, your only going to use them to fine tune the pinion angle, as it would blow to have to reweld the rear perches several times...I know ideally your looking to have the pinion windup to 3 degres max UP in your application, but it's best to "work" the pinion inclination "UP" to desired point, rather than overshoot the benchmark, confirm the pinion angle by measuring every time you add more shim, then when you feel you have reached the ideal pinion angle (by driving the car for driveline "feel"), record it, I would then cut the perches, weld new ones, but do it in the car, otherwords mock up the axle in the car with the perches/axle bolts/etc/etc and tack weld the perches with the car loaded on it's suspension, and the pinion rotated to the desired installed angle....then remove and finish weld the axle
Mike
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: screamindriver]
#1345870
12/10/12 12:36 AM
12/10/12 12:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
MP shims are steel...
You beat me too it  ...I'm a slow typer
Mike
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Re: Shaker Sitting Low
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1345871
12/10/12 01:04 AM
12/10/12 01:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,196
Harrisburg, Pa.
screamindriver
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,196
Harrisburg, Pa.
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Quote:
Quote:
MP shims are steel...
You beat me too it ...I'm a slow typer
Mike
Sorry Mike ! Just passing through...Great thread by the way...Solves one guy's problem but helps everyone else make educated decisions with these trannys...Colin
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