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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: thehemikid]
#1340921
11/25/12 11:20 AM
11/25/12 11:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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The descrip sure sounds good. Maybe for that kind of money they are reworking the internals to do what stock alts could not. I think people have had good luck with Denso's but it would not look stock but I think they're pretty reasonable
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: thehemikid]
#1340922
11/25/12 11:35 AM
11/25/12 11:35 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Quote:
Been searching for a high amp @ idle Chrysler 2 pulley round back. Found one a Quality Power.
http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=23&catid=43&ret=catalog.php%3Fcategory%3D43
Their site shows one with 55 @ idle. Don't care that much for the price but...anyone have one/verify that?
Any body know of other high amp at idle stock look alt's out there? Any help appreciated.
The 55 amp @ idle is about as good as you are going to get with the factory type alternators. I have a "Tuff Stuff" 100 amp unit (squareback) on my Charger which is rated at 60 amp idle...this was the best I could find without spending in the area of $400-500 for a higher output that would use the factory brackets and all and still would not look OEM at all...
You may have an easier time if you are willing to use the factory style squareback as they have more options. Unless you are running some crazy setup (elec fans/pump/etc) then even the OEM squareback would be a noticeable difference from the roundback unit. You could drop one in without cutting your wires or changing brackets most likely. You can even get the later 78 amp factory version that will drop right in as well. That should be more than enough for a "normal" application.
The factory squareback would probably be the easiest/cheapest upgrade but if you want the roundback, the unit on your link is about as good as it's going to get.
Good Luck! 
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: thehemikid]
#1340923
11/25/12 12:40 PM
11/25/12 12:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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Calling it stock looking is a bit of a stretch, but this AC Delco CS144 escapes notice by, most non-Moparts people. It puts out a bit over 115 amps at idle & up to 220 amps at a fast idle(if needed, as it's load dependent), uses an inexpensive adapter to mount using the stock brackets, and can be re-worked to put out an astonishing amount of amperage above a fast idle, much higher than I have mine modified for.
I have a significant aftermarket amp load on my car, and it idles just under 800 rpm. It's the only alternator I've ever found that takes care of the discharging at idle issues.
Last edited by jbc426; 11/27/12 01:46 PM.
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1340925
11/25/12 02:40 PM
11/25/12 02:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
AC Delco CS144. It puts out a bit over 115 amps at idle & 220 amps at a fast idle,
That is impressive specs. How do you wire it in?
I followed the Mad Electric principles using an underhood-central distibution lug, remote voltage sensing, relays on everything that needs high amperage, and proper fusing for all cables & wires.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1340927
11/25/12 04:19 PM
11/25/12 04:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
I followed the Mad Electric principles, remote voltage sensing,
That's what I was wondering about was if it had 2 field terminals like ours, then there's something about it turning off the idiot light on GM's when it's charging. Will the Madd site have all this info?
I'm not using the "L", as I have a voltage gauge in place of my ammeter, and I'm not using the "P" wire either.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: jbc426]
#1340928
11/25/12 04:57 PM
11/25/12 04:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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took a bit of squinting but I got it thank you!
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: cjskotni]
#1340929
11/26/12 02:34 AM
11/26/12 02:34 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,805
ky hills
thehemikid
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,805
ky hills
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Quote:
Quote:
Been searching for a high amp @ idle Chrysler 2 pulley round back. Found one a Quality Power.
http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=23&catid=43&ret=catalog.php%3Fcategory%3D43
Their site shows one with 55 @ idle. Don't care that much for the price but...anyone have one/verify that?
Any body know of other high amp at idle stock look alt's out there? Any help appreciated.
The 55 amp @ idle is about as good as you are going to get with the factory type alternators. I have a "Tuff Stuff" 100 amp unit (squareback) on my Charger which is rated at 60 amp idle...this was the best I could find without spending in the area of $400-500 for a higher output that would use the factory brackets and all and still would not look OEM at all...
You may have an easier time if you are willing to use the factory style squareback as they have more options. Unless you are running some crazy setup (elec fans/pump/etc) then even the OEM squareback would be a noticeable difference from the roundback unit. You could drop one in without cutting your wires or changing brackets most likely. You can even get the later 78 amp factory version that will drop right in as well. That should be more than enough for a "normal" application.
The factory squareback would probably be the easiest/cheapest upgrade but if you want the roundback, the unit on your link is about as good as it's going to get.
Good Luck!
Is that Tuff Stuff black powder coat only or can you get'm natural.
The 78 amp,...is that a square back or the late 80's kinda GM looking black plastic backed deal.
The reason I'm pursuing the high amp/idle is if I decide to run the Monster MB fan, and be stuck in traffic.
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: thehemikid]
#1340930
11/26/12 08:54 AM
11/26/12 08:54 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Quote:
Is that Tuff Stuff black powder coat only or can you get'm natural.
The 78 amp,...is that a square back or the late 80's kinda GM looking black plastic backed deal.
The reason I'm pursuing the high amp/idle is if I decide to run the Monster MB fan, and be stuck in traffic.
The one I put in my car is natural. I think you can get them in black, natural, polished, or chrome. I like it because it is a drop in deal, no mods required like bracket headaches and wiring splices.
The 78 amp is a square back unit with some very slight differences from the 60 amp unit but will still drop right in place of it. Still will use the same wires, brackets, etc. It doesn not look different at all for the casual observer.
I had the best luck finding the 78 amp units from O'Reiley's if you have those near you. The other chains were pushing the 60 amp units for some reason. The 78 amp unti can be had for around $50-60 and the Tuff Stuff is around $150.
Also remember that most alternator manuafacturers define "idle" as 2400 alternator RPMs which using stadard pulleys will mean 800 engine RPMs.
If you are stuck sitting in traffic with some huge amp draw, you may still need to drop her in neutral or park to get the idle up to actually make the 60 amps they state. Setting the idle up will help to but I wouldn't want an 800 RPM idle in gear.
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: cjskotni]
#1340931
11/26/12 11:41 AM
11/26/12 11:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 587
IL . usa
cjs69mope
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 587
IL . usa
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Not to hijack But years would you find the 78 amp Square back alt?
1969 Dodge Charger
1969 Dodge Superbee
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: cjs69mope]
#1340932
11/26/12 11:47 AM
11/26/12 11:47 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
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as far I know 77 and lates, high equippment cars.
these alts are a little bit wider, maybe couple of milimeters. This could make on a big block the back of alt meeting the block. Will require longer belts and done.
it fits tight BUT you can mill down a little bit the rear spacer to an easier fitment. not mandatory, but better
use the SMALLER pulley as posible. Being a driver this will be a nice upgrade making spin faster the alternator. On a racer car where the car see REALLY HIGH RPMS, a smaller pulley is not a good idea due the strees will put on aternator bearings
after many research about this stuff decided not to pay $150 what is what special shops charges for "100 amps". I would spec 55-60 amps paying $150 or so. I sent emails everywhere and everybody told me they put 45 amps iddling.
will be great if they really put out 55 at iddle. I don't care 100 at max output. my car will NEVER require that, and I use the AC, daily driver. maybe 80.
78 or 80 amps replacement alts can be ordered by parts shops in around $60. BeckArnley PN 186-6002. it cames with the small double pulley on it
BTDT
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: cjskotni]
#1340934
11/26/12 09:13 PM
11/26/12 09:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,805
ky hills
thehemikid
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,805
ky hills
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Quote:
Quote:
Is that Tuff Stuff black powder coat only or can you get'm natural.
The 78 amp,...is that a square back or the late 80's kinda GM looking black plastic backed deal.
The reason I'm pursuing the high amp/idle is if I decide to run the Monster MB fan, and be stuck in traffic.
The one I put in my car is natural. I think you can get them in black, natural, polished, or chrome. I like it because it is a drop in deal, no mods required like bracket headaches and wiring splices.
The 78 amp is a square back unit with some very slight differences from the 60 amp unit but will still drop right in place of it. Still will use the same wires, brackets, etc. It doesn not look different at all for the casual observer.
I had the best luck finding the 78 amp units from O'Reiley's if you have those near you. The other chains were pushing the 60 amp units for some reason. The 78 amp unti can be had for around $50-60 and the Tuff Stuff is around $150.
Also remember that most alternator manuafacturers define "idle" as 2400 alternator RPMs which using stadard pulleys will mean 800 engine RPMs.
If you are stuck sitting in traffic with some huge amp draw, you may still need to drop her in neutral or park to get the idle up to actually make the 60 amps they state. Setting the idle up will help to but I wouldn't want an 800 RPM idle in gear.
So is the 78 amp, 78 @ 2400 rpm, & look fairly close to the 74 square back.
O'Reillys $50-60 I guess I can Google them for a pic & info.
Tuff Stuff black would look good with black wrinkle V/covers & the black P/steering pump. Would be a nice balance of color,...  ...
As far as sitting in traffic...its a 4 spd
Last edited by thehemikid; 11/26/12 09:17 PM.
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: thehemikid]
#1340935
11/26/12 11:49 PM
11/26/12 11:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Quote:
So is the 78 amp, 78 @ 2400 rpm, & look fairly close to the 74 square back.
No, the 78 amp alternator will likely put out around 45-50 amps at idle (800 engine RPM's)and the 78 amps would be probably 3000 engine RPM's+.
Yes, it will look 98% like an original factory square back. All it really is is the revised square back design. In fact, O'Reilley's sells the 78 amp unit for my '73 Charger as replacement alternator even though mine originally is the first 60 amp square back design.
Like Nacho said, it looks slightly different as it has a revised stator and an added ground stud but other than that looks the same to me as the original 60 amp square back. 
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: thehemikid]
#1340937
11/27/12 08:43 AM
11/27/12 08:43 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Quote:
Ok, appears to be the natural finish Tuff Stuff 60 amp at idle, as far as staying with a stock look, & bracket ease.
I'll have to add up all the possible future electrical add-ons & see if 15-20 amps will be enough over the ~40 that the Monster fan uses at wide open. Don't sound like a whole lot of room to play there. Thanks for the help.
If the electric fans you installed are really a constant 40 amp draw when engaged, you are probably going to have a discharge at idle even with the Tuff Stuff unit.
My fans draw 20 amps (tested and verified) and my 100 amp alternator will start losing ground (discharging) with the headlights on and foot on the brake (brake lights on) at idle. Once I rev her up, I'm fine...back to charging. This is without other accessories like radio and blower motor/AC going.
You may have to go to a newer alternator style in your case or use a fan controller to turn those fans down a bit to lessen the load. If you plan on sitting in traffic idling a lot with those fans on, I'd make sure I had a good battery so you have plenty of reserve!
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Re: High amp @ idle alt.
[Re: cjskotni]
#1340938
11/27/12 02:13 PM
11/27/12 02:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Ok, appears to be the natural finish Tuff Stuff 60 amp at idle, as far as staying with a stock look, & bracket ease.
I'll have to add up all the possible future electrical add-ons & see if 15-20 amps will be enough over the ~40 that the Monster fan uses at wide open. Don't sound like a whole lot of room to play there. Thanks for the help.
If the electric fans you installed are really a constant 40 amp draw when engaged, you are probably going to have a discharge at idle even with the Tuff Stuff unit.
My fans draw 20 amps (tested and verified) and my 100 amp alternator will start losing ground (discharging) with the headlights on and foot on the brake (brake lights on) at idle. Once I rev her up, I'm fine...back to charging. This is without other accessories like radio and blower motor/AC going.
You may have to go to a newer alternator style in your case or use a fan controller to turn those fans down a bit to lessen the load. If you plan on sitting in traffic idling a lot with those fans on, I'd make sure I had a good battery so you have plenty of reserve!
This is the problem with the Mopar and Denso units, relatively low output at idle.
Like stated above, they're fine if you don't have a high amp draw, but, if you have amperage-hungry effective electric fan(s), powerful electric fuel pump(s), bright headlights, air conditioning, MSD, and a stereo; you're going to need an alternator capable of putting out some serious amperage while the car is idling or you will be running on the battery.
Not everyone needs or wants the higher idle output. Reworked Mopar alternators and Denso alternators work very well for those with moderate amp loads.
A lot of Mopar guys just live with the discharge at idle issue, but for those who want 14+ volts at idle with the A/C on sitting at a stop light, fans running, fuel pump humming. headlights on with your foot on the brake; the CS 144 is a realatively low-cost, easy-to-fit solution to this historic Mopar issue.
Be warned however, that it is only as good as the rest of your electrical system. As most here know, there are issues with the power distribution layout, bulkhead connector and through the amp gauge power flow.
Mad Electric has some very good insight into resolving these issues, but even his ideas can be taken a few steps farther.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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