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h-pipe x-pipe or neither? #1335295 11/14/12 08:15 PM 11/14/12 08:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,064 Iowa 76dodgeboy OP master
76dodgeboy OP master Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,064 Iowa	Plan on dual for my 5th ave and would like to know if I should just leave the pipes separate or do one of the above. Looking for best fuel economy. Thanks

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: 76dodgeboy] #1335296 11/14/12 08:50 PM 11/14/12 08:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 292 Atlanta DartGTX enthusiast
DartGTX enthusiast Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 292 Atlanta	X

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: DartGTX] #1335297 11/14/12 08:54 PM 11/14/12 08:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 15,119 85086 moparpollack Lil Herman
moparpollack Lil Herman Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 15,119 85086	Separate everything else is a pain to work on and not worth messing around for 5-7 hp. 56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: moparpollack] #1335298 11/14/12 10:04 PM 11/14/12 10:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,064 Iowa 76dodgeboy OP master
76dodgeboy OP master Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,064 Iowa	Not doing it for hp. Want to do what's best for fuel economy.

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: 76dodgeboy] #1335299 11/14/12 10:27 PM 11/14/12 10:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: Want to do what's best for fuel economy. mandrel bends and as large a dia pipes/free flowing muffs as you can tolerate. I believe an X system will quiet it a bit allowing you to go a bit more radical with the pipe dia/muffs plus I would use resonators of some sort (glasspacks) alongside the leaf springs for more noise reduction and use ones that do not neck down where the end nipples meet the body live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: RapidRobert] #1335300 11/14/12 11:31 PM 11/14/12 11:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,064 Iowa 76dodgeboy OP master
76dodgeboy OP master Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,064 Iowa	I don't want it that quiet. Id drive open headers if I could but since it'll be my car to haul around our baby I can't have it header loud. But would like inbetween that and stock. I wanna hear in running. Ill have to post the one object YouTube Last edited by 76dodgeboy; 11/14/12 11:32 PM.

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: 76dodgeboy] #1335301 11/15/12 12:08 AM 11/15/12 12:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,043 State of Confusion hp383 Just a normal tag again
hp383 Just a normal tag again Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,043 State of Confusion	Quote: I don't want it that quiet. Id drive open headers if I could but since it'll be my car to haul around our baby I can't have it header loud. But would like inbetween that and stock. I wanna hear in running. Ill have to post the one object YouTube Remember that being a 5th Ave, it had a good amount of sound deadening padding, etc, throughout the interior panels. So a louder muffler wont be as loud inside (with windows up anyway) Join the Penguin Liberation Front!! Stop the Hippo Occupation!

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: hp383] #1335302 11/15/12 02:24 AM 11/15/12 02:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,048 Back home in PA B BulletBob master
BulletBob master B Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,048 Back home in PA	Quote: Quote: I don't want it that quiet. Id drive open headers if I could but since it'll be my car to haul around our baby I can't have it header loud. But would like inbetween that and stock. I wanna hear in running. Ill have to post the one object YouTube Remember that being a 5th Ave, it had a good amount of sound deadening padding, etc, throughout the interior panels. So a louder muffler wont be as loud inside (with windows up anyway) You don't want it too quiet! I used to ride my kids around when they were really tired & let them washed out glass packs on my Charger rumble there butt right off to sleep

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: BulletBob] #1335303 11/15/12 04:38 AM 11/15/12 04:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	In your case I think you're best off just keeping them separate. You won't see any mpg difference, and when kept separate the motor sounds a little more mean.

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1335304 11/15/12 06:03 AM 11/15/12 06:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,064 Iowa 76dodgeboy OP master
76dodgeboy OP master Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,064 Iowa	Now I just have to hope the cheap turbo mufflers sound good

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: 76dodgeboy] #1335305 11/15/12 10:55 AM 11/15/12 10:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C. Streetwize master
Streetwize master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C.	If you want good MPG consider the flowmaster pulse tech header collectors and phase each bank 180 degrees for a 4 to 2 to 1, You Pair 7-1 and 3-5 on the Drivers and 8-2 and 4-6 on the Pass side....sounds pretty good too For mpg you want to keep the restrictions down but the VELOCITY up, you when cruising the motro is most responsive in that 35-75 MPH range and wherever your powerband falls for that speed. For max MPG I'd run generally the exaust system 1 trade size smaller than you would for max power. you may lose some peak power (maybe but doubtful) but you'll gain some effectively 'free' part throttle torque/MPG through the middle. This is generally how Mopar approached it from the factory BTW and in part why so many people were so happy with Chrysler's "passing power". FWIw the factory mopar dual exhausts of the 60's and early 70's were exceptionally well engineered for what they were. so don't reinvent the wheel....except for a better flowing muffler system. Last edited by Streetwize; 11/15/12 11:06 AM. WIZE World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI In Car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: Streetwize] #1335306 11/15/12 12:26 PM 11/15/12 12:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN R Rug_Trucker I Live Here
Rug_Trucker I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN	I rode in HotrodDave's mileage master 318 in his Cuda had TTI's straight pipes with an H pipe all the way out the back. It was a 273 2bbl cam. That car sounded sweet, and scared the Mustang boys. The H pipe quieted my slant down. "The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" "NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: Rug_Trucker] #1335307 11/15/12 02:51 PM 11/15/12 02:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	Use whatever fits. The MOPAR engineers were very good at low dollar improvements, the H-pipe is one of them. The X pipe setup is better but harder to get under the car. I like Dynomax Hemi Super Turbos. Not too loud but you know they're there. Listen to Streetwize as his advice is gained over years of experience. R.

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: 76dodgeboy] #1335308 11/15/12 03:19 PM 11/15/12 03:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,162 USA 3 360view Moparts resident spammer
360view Moparts resident spammer 3 Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,162 USA	At part throttle daily driving the pressure in your exhaust pipe is so low its effect on fuel economy is aleady low. You are only going to see a hit on fuel economy if the pressure goes over 2 psi. Find a 0 to 10 psi gauge and plumb it with steel brake line to the exhaust just after the manifold. You need the metal line to dissipate some heat to protect the typical pressure gauge. If you add special long tube headers (36 to 46 inch primaries) and a short duration camshaft you can get more low rpm torque. With this additional torque you could use a numerically lower differential ratio and still climb mild hills. These three mods working together would improve highway MPG but have slight effect on stop and go city driving.

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: 360view] #1335309 11/15/12 03:30 PM 11/15/12 03:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	360view. I believe the H-pipe works the same way as crossover circle track headers in that it connects the two sides of the engine's exhaust together. It has, in my opinion, very little to do with backpressure. Another example of this is the old header vs manifold argument. Headers do their best work if they're long tube. This is again due to the tuning effect, separating the exhaust pulses for the correct amount of time. Many many dyno tests have shown long tube headers to increase the torque curve below the torque peak. Shorty headers do not have as much of an advantage because they aren't long enough. They're more like manifolds. R.

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: dogdays] #1335310 11/16/12 12:22 AM 11/16/12 12:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,043 State of Confusion hp383 Just a normal tag again
hp383 Just a normal tag again Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,043 State of Confusion	The H pipe as i understand it, helps create a scavenging effect in the pipes, which helps with flow at higher RPM. Since the car in question will be spending 90% or more of its time at 65 MPH +, then I would say it would be a benefit. My 71 Newport with a factory 383HP motor, came with the high flow manifolds, and an H in the exhaust. It was only a 2-1/4" system, but im guessing it was there for a reason. Join the Penguin Liberation Front!! Stop the Hippo Occupation!

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: 76dodgeboy] #1335311 11/16/12 12:45 AM 11/16/12 12:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,541 Albany, NY 67SATisfaction The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction The member whose name is actually Art Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,541 Albany, NY	What MPG do you get now, or think you'll get? If you're buying a new system, X will give you best economy by a slim margin, given that +HP = more efficient combustion = best fuel econ. Proper tune will factor much more into MPG. But the money you'd save on gas might not equal the cost difference between a cheap stock system and the added cost of X or H. ASSUME you might improve fuel econ about 5% - you would save 1 gallon for every 20gallons you buy. So what's the diff in cost for a new X exhaust system vs stock? $400? At $4/gal you'd break even after buying 2000gals of gas ($8,000 x 5% = $400). That's between 30-and40,000 miles of driving. Best, -Art 65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76 67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23 67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd 82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle 75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: dogdays] #1335312 11/16/12 12:52 AM 11/16/12 12:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN R Rug_Trucker I Live Here
Rug_Trucker I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN	Remember the Headman Hustler 4-2-1's? H pipe needs to be as far forward as possible. Too big diameter pipes? Crap fuel mileage!

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: Rug_Trucker] #1335313 11/16/12 01:39 AM 11/16/12 01:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,064 Iowa 76dodgeboy OP master
76dodgeboy OP master Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,064 Iowa	Ill have less than $300 in the whole system with the x or h pipe. The dual kit is $225 and an h or x for a cheaper one is $45. The car needs exists anyway vast the po had somebody delete the cat and did a horrible job cause it hangs about 2-3" off the ground. I will also be installing headers. The car already gets upper teens stock and not running 100%

Re: h-pipe x-pipe or neither? [Re: hp383] #1335314 11/16/12 01:42 AM 11/16/12 01:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,064 Iowa 76dodgeboy OP master
76dodgeboy OP master Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,064 Iowa	Quote: The H pipe as i understand it, helps create a scavenging effect in the pipes, which helps with flow at higher RPM. Since the car in question will be spending 90% or more of its time at 65 MPH +, then I would say it would be a benefit. My 71 Newport with a factory 383HP motor, came with the high flow manifolds, and an H in the exhaust. It was only a 2-1/4" system, but im guessing it was there for a reason. I plan to they and drive between 60-70mph depending on which gets optimal mileage

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