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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: joshking440]
#1333028
11/10/12 10:10 AM
11/10/12 10:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
Plumb Wired
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
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SB: high end cylinder heads! most of the SB drag race cylinder head R&D ended with the demise of Pro Stock Truck. BB: larger bore space blocks & cylinder heads to support larger cubic inches & hp. I know that these things will probably never happen because there just isn't a large enough market for them but it would be nice to have more options for high end Mopar builds.  Mike Gray
RIP Monte Smith
aka: OutlawFish
'98 Bickel Dodge Dakota PST
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: Plumb Wired]
#1333032
11/10/12 10:31 AM
11/10/12 10:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 601
Niles, Michigan
Hitman340
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 601
Niles, Michigan
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Quote:
SB: high end cylinder heads! most of the SB drag race cylinder head R&D ended with the demise of Pro Stock Truck.
BB: larger bore space blocks & cylinder heads to support larger cubic inches & hp.
I know that these things will probably never happen because there just isn't a large enough market for them but it would be nice to have more options for high end Mopar builds.
Mike Gray
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: tboomer]
#1333035
11/10/12 11:10 AM
11/10/12 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
Money,Josh!! We are missing money!!  
Ding, ding, ding, We have a winner!
Most mopar guys I've met are fairly intelligent, and very frugal. They were drawn to mopars because they realized that while the initial investment was more, the pay off was in reliabilty and longevity.
They aren't going to throw stuff away that isn't broken, and they aren't going to jump at the newest fad part that hits the market.
I love the Mopar guys who say, "mopars are more expensive, so we can't build what the chevy guys or ford guys can".
Those guys are spending a TON of money on that crap, and they are doing it over and over and over again!
When is the last time Dart or Brodix had to reverse engineer thier heads, because the chevy guys complained about buying or building a new set of headers? The ford and chevy guys spend stupid money to go fast. The Mopar guys simply won't do that, or at least not in large enough numbers to support the r&d for top shelf parts.
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: joshking440]
#1333036
11/10/12 11:13 AM
11/10/12 11:13 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
-
RSNOMO
Moparts Torchbearer
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Moparts Torchbearer
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
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Quote:
What are some of the industry items that you think we are lacking?
Certain head designs? Different Block options?
Where do you think we are lacking something
All rooted in $$$...
R&D on 'new' pieces is gonna require a broader customer base...
A young guy who may not be 'brand specific' is gonna look for the best bang for the buck...
He may look at GM...
A lot of guys here have bailed...
Age, economics, interest...
The sun may be setting...
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: Hot 340]
#1333037
11/10/12 11:26 AM
11/10/12 11:26 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,428
Dandridge TN
Dabee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,428
Dandridge TN
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Quote:
My opinion is you need a whole new consumer base. The few mopar guys there are aint gonna buy the spendy go fast parts even if they did make them. You have to attact new blood that HAS money, and that could only be done by Chrysler building new, light, modify-freindy cars that dont weigh a ton like the fox bodies of recent past.
Yep and they’ll put a small block chevy in them!
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: bobs66440]
#1333042
11/10/12 12:42 PM
11/10/12 12:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,973
SoCal
jake4cars
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,973
SoCal
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Quote:
Affordability. That's the biggest issue. We can make the same HP numbers as the Chevy guys. It just costs twice as much. And the parts are insane.
we pay the mopar tax, it is silly what stuff costs compared to the other kids in the sandbox.
Joey
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: jake4cars]
#1333045
11/10/12 01:13 PM
11/10/12 01:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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I was talking to a guy from Trick Flow last month about there products or should I say lack of products for Mopars. He called over 4 more guys and we talked for about 30 minutes about the mopar head market and what is needed. I told him the big block area is pretty well cover but we needed a small-block head like the Indy 360-1. The one guy was real happy to hear this as he has been pushing toward that area. I then told him that many MOPAR guys will not even deal with Indy directly because of there attitude directed toward the customer and that there head is prone to leaking. I can only hope this Ohio based company takes something from this and does some further research.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1333046
11/10/12 01:28 PM
11/10/12 01:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,481
Outside
thedriver
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,481
Outside
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My boy is almost 9. I'm starting to look for a project car already. Something cheap, solid, carb powered. Would lOve a Mopar for him, but that would mean a car that is nearly 50 years old by the time he's driving. I keep looking at early 80s Malibu coupes. No value, great platform, huge aftermarket, comfy, it's a real usable car. Same can be said about the fox body, tho that is less dd friendly when you get 3ft of snow. What Mopar is missing the most is they didn't build anything for over 20 years that was worth a damn.
1973 challenger
Dana. 4 speed. Low deck.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1333047
11/10/12 01:36 PM
11/10/12 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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1 Affordable single carb intake for genIII hemi
2 Affordable entry level rocker gear for genII hemi
3 Affordable entry level ign controller for genIII hemi
4 If trick flow is involved how bout a twisted wedge head for a 5.2 5.9 magnum with about a 57 CC chamber? Price it close to the chevy head.
I don't really buy into the whole mopar vs chevy volume thing, one affordable mopar head should sell better than any one version of a cheap SB chevy head considering how there are TONS of choices for them. Just glancing through jegs and summit I bet there are 50 different heads for a SB chevy priced cheaper than a mopar SB Eddelbrock.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: thedriver]
#1333048
11/10/12 01:40 PM
11/10/12 01:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
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Josh, since I know where you are coming from with this....SB's need more HEAD OPTIONS! Preferably, something in between to bridge the gap of an aluminum eddy and the Indy-1's or -2's....or maybe making those heads more affordable in the first place considering they need porting to work to their potential! And im sorry, im going to have to disagree about the other brands being the same price to build- maybe with the real HIGH HIGH dollar stuff, but for the average guy, thats b.s. I can't speak for BB stuff, but I really think small block mopars need more cylinder head options- you look at chevy and ford offerrings, and compare it to the mopars, and it looks like mopars would go extinct just from the difference in numbers of whats out there to use!! Thats just my OH yea, more affordable aftermarket blocks would be nice too! lol
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: joshking440]
#1333049
11/10/12 01:50 PM
11/10/12 01:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454
Glendora Ca.
Just-a-dart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454
Glendora Ca.
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Josh looks like you are fishing for ideas.
What has kept me from being interested in gen 3 hemis is the lack of cyl head/rocker gear to run real springs and solid rollers.
"Just a Bracket car dressed up like a streetcar"
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: greendart408]
#1333051
11/10/12 02:33 PM
11/10/12 02:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
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Seems this is breaking as I would expect. lots of guys complaining about price of moderate HP stuff, ie the Mopar "tax" which is real but is also a result of demand.
Next guys building the more high end stuff are simply left out in the cold becuase of the lack of options. There are some heads out there that can get you into the 1300hp area but they all seem to have their issues. If you want more power you are forced to the purpose built stuff out there in the 5-5.3 bore space stuff.
I also think the roundy round stuff is a market that could use some more time and energy. I am intrigued by the P7 stuff but not much out there in the drag oriented arena like the 2.2 stuff. Lack of cast intakes and more drag race oriented stuff in my opinion is a missing market.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: jamesc]
#1333060
11/10/12 04:11 PM
11/10/12 04:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
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Quote:
strength in numbers, it's a simple matter of supply and demand
i would think if there is one single thing lacking it's bore space, but then comes the required heads
it does cost more to run a chrysler no matter how you cut it, dollar per HP it's more expensive (think about used parts as well). not to mention for every single choice in a chrysler part there's a dozen in a chevy part.
Pull out the Jeg's or Summit catalogs...
There are 20 pages for each Chevy part, 5 pages for a Ford part and 1 page for a Mopar part..
Simply numbers based...
Just my $0.02... 
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: BB70DUSTER]
#1333061
11/10/12 04:41 PM
11/10/12 04:41 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
topbrent
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
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Quote:
HATE:
 A conversion kit to bolt in LS motors...   LOL
I agree...and am working on it...
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: jamesc]
#1333062
11/10/12 05:10 PM
11/10/12 05:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Even the AMC guys had an aluminum SB for years, we just FINALLY got one (thanks Ritter! ) when the bank lets me take out a second mortgage I will buy one. The new air wolf heads seem to be able to fill the gap between W9s and eddelbrocks, I guess a lot of you guys have not seen them yet  now if we could get a "fast as cast" version for a little less than the eddy but with a little more flow/cross section we will be set on heads. 1 587 915 X heads 2 Magnum 3 EQ 4 RHS 5 6 eddelbrock 7 W2 8 Air wolf (only ranked above W2 because it's aluminum) 9 Indy 360-1 10 Indy 360-2 11 W9 12 P7 There is a lot of overlap there and the orders can be argued but there are less gaps in there than you would think. That doesn't even take into account the less common disco stuff like aluminum W2s W5 W7 W8 aluminum magnums, small and large port commandos or underachievers like the B1 or the as of yet un-proven pro-comp. The only gap I see could possibly be filled by the pro comp. Or a cool niche head like a twisted wedge magnum. SB chevy stuff gets a lot more expensive when they start doing shaft mount rockers, 18* heads, stroke over 3.75 inches, .904 lifters... the SB mopar has soooooo much more potential, you ever seen anyone put a 4.25 stroke in a stock 350 block? The gen III hemi would make the old SB stuff all the way up to W9 obsolete with a few cheaper aftermarket goodies though that stuff is incredible and needs no aftermarket heads or blocks.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1333064
11/10/12 06:20 PM
11/10/12 06:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
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Quote:
Even the AMC guys had an aluminum SB for years, we just FINALLY got one (thanks Ritter! ) when the bank lets me take out a second mortgage I will buy one. The new air wolf heads seem to be able to fill the gap between W9s and eddelbrocks, I guess a lot of you guys have not seen them yet now if we could get a "fast as cast" version for a little less than the eddy but with a little more flow/cross section we will be set on heads.
1 587 915 X heads
2 Magnum
3 EQ
4 RHS
5
6 eddelbrock
7 W2
8 Air wolf (only ranked above W2 because it's aluminum)
9 Indy 360-1
10 Indy 360-2
11 W9
12 P7
There is a lot of overlap there and the orders can be argued but there are less gaps in there than you would think. That doesn't even take into account the less common disco stuff like aluminum W2s W5 W7 W8 aluminum magnums, small and large port commandos or underachievers like the B1 or the as of yet un-proven pro-comp. The only gap I see could possibly be filled by the pro comp. Or a cool niche head like a twisted wedge magnum.
SB chevy stuff gets a lot more expensive when they start doing shaft mount rockers, 18* heads, stroke over 3.75 inches, .904 lifters... the SB mopar has soooooo much more potential, you ever seen anyone put a 4.25 stroke in a stock 350 block?
The gen III hemi would make the old SB stuff all the way up to W9 obsolete with a few cheaper aftermarket goodies though that stuff is incredible and needs no aftermarket heads or blocks.
Air wolf and the eddy's are the only thing we have before a full on Indy deal (and the air wolfs are pro comp heads with a port job by the way).
Having one head as the in between does not suffice- why the hell do our "in between heads" flow what an entry level SBS or SBF head flow??? and they have way more of them too!
I agree with some of the previous comments that mopar guys are cheap, but I think that is because mopar guys are sooo used to being bent over for parts because of the extra mopar expense to them, that they would rather just keep what they have instead of sell their right arm to afford a new part....If there were more options, and affordable ones at that, there would be guys out there all over them in my opinion....To even deny that mopar stuff is not more expensive, from entry level to all out, is in my opinion just plain ignorance (not directing this to you Dave, just making a point in this post about that as well  )
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: joshking440]
#1333065
11/10/12 06:55 PM
11/10/12 06:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
What are some of the industry items that you think we are lacking?
Certain head designs? Different Block options?
Where do you think we are lacking something
Blocks in every deck height, bore space, material, etc.......new cyinder head castings every 15 minutes and the top shops in the nation grinding away on these parts extracting every drop of power.
This is what's available to Ford & GM guys who then go out and BUY IT, without crying about how much it deviates from assemble line configurations.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: thedriver]
#1333066
11/10/12 07:25 PM
11/10/12 07:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,714
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,714
North Dakota
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Quote:
My boy is almost 9. I'm starting to look for a project car already. Something cheap, solid, carb powered.
Would lOve a Mopar for him, but that would mean a car that is nearly 50 years old by the time he's driving.
I keep looking at early 80s Malibu coupes. No value, great platform, huge aftermarket, comfy, it's a real usable car.
Same can be said about the fox body, tho that is less dd friendly when you get 3ft of snow.
What Mopar is missing the most is they didn't build anything for over 20 years that was worth a damn.
Absolutely. You have to have something that future generations will want. Only then do you have a future consumer base that will buy parts in quantity. There is no use in making trick parts if there are only a few who are willing to buy them.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1333068
11/10/12 07:33 PM
11/10/12 07:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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It would be nice if Mopar could make a crank that will oil @ 7800RPM+ for the Gen 3 Hemi. The GM guys have used stock cranks without TOO many problems for years. I think the Mopar engineers have their head in the sand. I bet the GM LS engine users aren't having oiling problems with their stock cranks. Hold me back,,I think I'm headed to the dark side..  Also,,Josh, if you are trying to get Mopar to listen to the people's wants/needs...good luck. I'm sure you know some people in the Mopar esablishment.
Last edited by CHAPPER; 11/10/12 07:36 PM.
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: jamesc]
#1333070
11/10/12 10:04 PM
11/10/12 10:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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Bought a used W2 engine years ago. It blew to smithereens in my shop. Fixed the heads and bolted them on another shortblock. Ran that baby for years and beat the He!! out of the Fords and Chevies running the same rules. I had a few thousand in the engine and the MOPAR crowd said I was made of money and that is why I won. BS
Later wanted something to run KOS. Bought a set of Arringtons. $3,500. Guy builds an engine for me and it blows up. Arrington fixes the heads and the engine. $8,000 to repair, outrageous. Next time out it blew holes in the pistons he cut too thin. Got all the bugs out and Arrington sells another set of these heads to a guy up the road for $2,000. I ran this little engine for years and won a lot of races. After Arrington wiped my checking account clean I learned to do my own work. And yes, Arrington taught me a lot I did not know. Most Mopar guys thought I had some kind of UNOBTAINIUM stuff. No, it was just leftover truck stuff that could have built an engine fairly cheap considering the power.
Then called Patterson to buy a set of W8's I saw on the internet. Talked to Allen about the build and he talked me into another set of heads. They cost me less than any set of Allumin Indy's at the time. I got extremely lucky on the valvetrain cost and had a complete engine that would stomp a mudhole in about any thing on the planet and it was cheap. Mopar guys made their excuses and even ran to the Chevy and Ford crowd making up tales as to why my stuff was so fast. Patterson could not hold people at gunpoint to buy these heads. When they were all bought up everybody wanted a set and was willing to pay whatever.
Just bought a little P7R5 combo. Less than half what a competive chevie or Ford cost. I have to do a little work and put it together but, I bet it will run well too.
You just have to open your eyes. The Mopar crowd does not have a hard core guy on every street. So you have to think for yourself. Talk to people across the nation. And figure this stuff out. If you are not able to do this maybe you need to race the less challenging makes. I race a Small Block mopar for some very good reasons. Tall decks, Raised cams, and bore spacing. I don't have to run some one off block to get this. I can appreciate the Mopar design. Not sure what is in it for the BB crowd cause I know a lot less about them. But, I know a hardcore BB guy who traveled 500 miles to buy a 99 HEMI and took it back because the valve guide had a nick on the bottom of it. A $100K engine for under $20K but that little nick was a deal breaker. This is your typical MOPAR guy. Wants something for nothing and aint willing to work for crap.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: topbrent]
#1333072
11/10/12 10:28 PM
11/10/12 10:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
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you can get ex police chargers at auction pretty cheap now a days..
see a couple at my local track...fwiw..
the new hemi is where its at..there everywhere..
and getting cheap.
they make plenty of hp....
365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: cheapstreetdustr]
#1333073
11/10/12 11:54 PM
11/10/12 11:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
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Probally brain cells since we pay a lot more than the other makes... or maybe that's from too much beer.
Honestly, I'd say better pricing, but not junk like some places make and sell cheap.
68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert
340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z
66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD. 07 Ram CTD, 07 Ram
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: mokid]
#1333074
11/11/12 03:36 AM
11/11/12 03:36 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
joshking440
OP
Lunch is on me!
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OP
Lunch is on me!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
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Quote:
I was talking to a racer at Mopar Week End at Gateway about how he has designed a new block and heads for big block/Hemi He was talking way over my head but addressed many issues that have been metioned, He owned and raced a black Barracuda with true flames, raced both ss/aa and 10 inch tire, He went on to say his design has been tested and he was having heads and blocks cast. Maybe someone knows him???
your talkin about Mike Sanders aka Colonel Sanders aka Husslin Hoosier
He had Russ at Indy make him a 4.84 bore space Hemi Block (Russ can make plenty if someone wants)
Stage 5 Made a set of 4.84 bore space heads (they too can make more)
It takes custom Pistons but a standard crank and rods.
sheet metal intake
standard stage 5 hemi stuff beyond that. it will be on a dyno here soon. I hope to be there to document it for a magazine article
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: joshking440]
#1333075
11/11/12 04:56 AM
11/11/12 04:56 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Why the hell everybody needs 20-30 different heads for I will never understand. A few good heads that work great should be enough.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: smokinwoody]
#1333078
11/11/12 11:09 AM
11/11/12 11:09 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 490
IL
EchoSixMike
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 490
IL
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Aftermarket GM blocks and such are cheaper than BBM stuff, sure, that's economy of scale, but there are guys spending $$$ out there, just not Mopar guys. My local engine builder has become something of a Ford FE guy, much to his unhappiness and the FE guys are spending, as much, if not more than, BBM guys, to have less power. Predator heads cost in line with similar GM products, Big Chief/Duke/Victor, they're all about $3-3.5K for bare heads, the C460 are $2K. You want 450-500cfm, you need to spend the money. Don't know where B-1TS's fit in there, probably similar to the BigDukes, both are Brodix products. I don't know why more people aren't building off the B-1 heads, seems like a good middle ground. Sure, you can't run factory crap or Chine rockers, so freaking what, no serious GM/Ford guys run factory/Chine either. Jesel/T&D stuff costs the same AFAIK. Hydraulic lifters ain't for racing, so not relevant IMO. All the serious GM/Ford guys are running Mopar lifters or sometimes going to 1.00" lifters, so no cheaper there. The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids. A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money. S/F....Ken M
Last edited by EchoSixMike; 11/11/12 11:11 AM.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#1333079
11/11/12 11:19 AM
11/11/12 11:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,784
PA
W5DART66
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,784
PA
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Quote:
Aftermarket GM blocks and such are cheaper than BBM stuff, sure, that's economy of scale, but there are guys spending $$$ out there, just not Mopar guys. My local engine builder has become something of a Ford FE guy, much to his unhappiness and the FE guys are spending, as much, if not more than, BBM guys, to have less power.
Predator heads cost in line with similar GM products, Big Chief/Duke/Victor, they're all about $3-3.5K for bare heads, the C460 are $2K. You want 450-500cfm, you need to spend the money. Don't know where B-1TS's fit in there, probably similar to the BigDukes, both are Brodix products. I don't know why more people aren't building off the B-1 heads, seems like a good middle ground. Sure, you can't run factory crap or Chine rockers, so freaking what, no serious GM/Ford guys run factory/Chine either.
Jesel/T&D stuff costs the same AFAIK. Hydraulic lifters ain't for racing, so not relevant IMO. All the serious GM/Ford guys are running Mopar lifters or sometimes going to 1.00" lifters, so no cheaper there.
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money. S/F....Ken M
A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money.
This is the major problem^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#1333080
11/11/12 01:24 PM
11/11/12 01:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
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Quote:
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
I disagree. The 92-96 V8 Magnum powered Dakotas weigh the same and can be just as fast. You can pick them up all day long on Craigslist for under 2k.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: W5DART66]
#1333082
11/11/12 01:35 PM
11/11/12 01:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Quote:
Quote:
Aftermarket GM blocks and such are cheaper than BBM stuff, sure, that's economy of scale, but there are guys spending $$$ out there, just not Mopar guys. My local engine builder has become something of a Ford FE guy, much to his unhappiness and the FE guys are spending, as much, if not more than, BBM guys, to have less power.
Predator heads cost in line with similar GM products, Big Chief/Duke/Victor, they're all about $3-3.5K for bare heads, the C460 are $2K. You want 450-500cfm, you need to spend the money. Don't know where B-1TS's fit in there, probably similar to the BigDukes, both are Brodix products. I don't know why more people aren't building off the B-1 heads, seems like a good middle ground. Sure, you can't run factory crap or Chine rockers, so freaking what, no serious GM/Ford guys run factory/Chine either.
Jesel/T&D stuff costs the same AFAIK. Hydraulic lifters ain't for racing, so not relevant IMO. All the serious GM/Ford guys are running Mopar lifters or sometimes going to 1.00" lifters, so no cheaper there.
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money. S/F....Ken M
A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money.
This is the major problem^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mabey it is just because we are broke from buying the car in the first place we just don't have any money left to blow
I am building a 90 dakota as it was the cheapest lightest ride I could find and it has a 5 speed. I painted it with Alis Chalmers $37 gallon tractor paint so I should have a few bucks left for a cool engine but the pick up truck still is hard to hook up.
Mabey we should ask someone to build us a chinese 68 dodge dart so we can all have a cheap car to start with, then we could spend money on motors
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1333083
11/11/12 01:39 PM
11/11/12 01:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Aftermarket GM blocks and such are cheaper than BBM stuff, sure, that's economy of scale, but there are guys spending $$$ out there, just not Mopar guys. My local engine builder has become something of a Ford FE guy, much to his unhappiness and the FE guys are spending, as much, if not more than, BBM guys, to have less power.
Predator heads cost in line with similar GM products, Big Chief/Duke/Victor, they're all about $3-3.5K for bare heads, the C460 are $2K. You want 450-500cfm, you need to spend the money. Don't know where B-1TS's fit in there, probably similar to the BigDukes, both are Brodix products. I don't know why more people aren't building off the B-1 heads, seems like a good middle ground. Sure, you can't run factory crap or Chine rockers, so freaking what, no serious GM/Ford guys run factory/Chine either.
Jesel/T&D stuff costs the same AFAIK. Hydraulic lifters ain't for racing, so not relevant IMO. All the serious GM/Ford guys are running Mopar lifters or sometimes going to 1.00" lifters, so no cheaper there.
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money. S/F....Ken M
A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money.
This is the major problem^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mabey it is just because we are broke from buying the car in the first place we just don't have any money left to blow
I am building a 90 dakota as it was the cheapest lightest ride I could find and it has a 5 speed. I painted it with Alis Chalmers $37 gallon tractor paint so I should have a few bucks left for a cool engine but the pick up truck still is hard to hook up.
Mabey we should ask someone to build us a chinese 68 dodge dart so we can all have a cheap car to start with, then we could spend money on motors
LOL That last line had me laughing real damn hard Dave ...good idea!
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1333085
11/11/12 01:48 PM
11/11/12 01:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
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Quote:
I am building a 90 dakota as it was the cheapest lightest ride I could find and it has a 5 speed. I painted it with Alis Chalmers $37 gallon tractor paint so I should have a few bucks left for a cool engine but the pick up truck still is hard to hook up.
No they aren't. Caltracs and mono leafs with good shocks. Just like every other leaf spring vehicle.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1333086
11/11/12 01:54 PM
11/11/12 01:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
I disagree. The 92-96 V8 Magnum powered Dakotas weigh the same and can be just as fast. You can pick them up all day long on Craigslist for under 2k.
Even with the V6 my truck is #500 heavier than a fox body
My 96 weighed 3450lbs in full street trim. No way the fox bodies are under 3000lbs. Maybe the early early ones, but a later Cobra is within a hundred pounds of my truck.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: Leon441]
#1333087
11/11/12 02:02 PM
11/11/12 02:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 395
campbell river B.C
mopartoby
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 395
campbell river B.C
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Quote:
Bought a used W2 engine years ago. It blew to smithereens in my shop. Fixed the heads and bolted them on another shortblock. Ran that baby for years and beat the He!! out of the Fords and Chevies running the same rules. I had a few thousand in the engine and the MOPAR crowd said I was made of money and that is why I won. BS
Later wanted something to run KOS. Bought a set of Arringtons. $3,500. Guy builds an engine for me and it blows up. Arrington fixes the heads and the engine. $8,000 to repair, outrageous. Next time out it blew holes in the pistons he cut too thin. Got all the bugs out and Arrington sells another set of these heads to a guy up the road for $2,000. I ran this little engine for years and won a lot of races. After Arrington wiped my checking account clean I learned to do my own work. And yes, Arrington taught me a lot I did not know. Most Mopar guys thought I had some kind of UNOBTAINIUM stuff. No, it was just leftover truck stuff that could have built an engine fairly cheap considering the power.
Then called Patterson to buy a set of W8's I saw on the internet. Talked to Allen about the build and he talked me into another set of heads. They cost me less than any set of Allumin Indy's at the time. I got extremely lucky on the valvetrain cost and had a complete engine that would stomp a mudhole in about any thing on the planet and it was cheap. Mopar guys made their excuses and even ran to the Chevy and Ford crowd making up tales as to why my stuff was so fast. Patterson could not hold people at gunpoint to buy these heads. When they were all bought up everybody wanted a set and was willing to pay whatever.
Just bought a little P7R5 combo. Less than half what a competive chevie or Ford cost. I have to do a little work and put it together but, I bet it will run well too.
You just have to open your eyes. The Mopar crowd does not have a hard core guy on every street. So you have to think for yourself. Talk to people across the nation. And figure this stuff out. If you are not able to do this maybe you need to race the less challenging makes. I race a Small Block mopar for some very good reasons. Tall decks, Raised cams, and bore spacing. I don't have to run some one off block to get this. I can appreciate the Mopar design. Not sure what is in it for the BB crowd cause I know a lot less about them. But, I know a hardcore BB guy who traveled 500 miles to buy a 99 HEMI and took it back because the valve guide had a nick on the bottom of it. A $100K engine for under $20K but that little nick was a deal breaker. This is your typical MOPAR guy. Wants something for nothing and aint willing to work for crap.
Leon
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: Devilbrad]
#1333088
11/11/12 02:19 PM
11/11/12 02:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
DakFink
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
I disagree. The 92-96 V8 Magnum powered Dakotas weigh the same and can be just as fast. You can pick them up all day long on Craigslist for under 2k.
Even with the V6 my truck is #500 heavier than a fox body
My 96 weighed 3450lbs in full street trim. No way the fox bodies are under 3000lbs. Maybe the early early ones, but a later Cobra is within a hundred pounds of my truck.
Fox Bodies 1979-1993 were about 2800-3300lbs depending on trim from the factory. Strip them out from all the extras (A/c, PowerSteering, Heat, Sound deadener, etc) and they are easily 2400-2800lbs with interior still in it. Strip it out totally for Race Duty and you can drop another 100-150lbs. And they come from the factory with a suspension as close as you can get to a 4-link in a factory car.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: DakFink]
#1333089
11/11/12 02:24 PM
11/11/12 02:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
I disagree. The 92-96 V8 Magnum powered Dakotas weigh the same and can be just as fast. You can pick them up all day long on Craigslist for under 2k.
Even with the V6 my truck is #500 heavier than a fox body
My 96 weighed 3450lbs in full street trim. No way the fox bodies are under 3000lbs. Maybe the early early ones, but a later Cobra is within a hundred pounds of my truck.
Fox Bodies 1979-1993 were about 2800-3300lbs depending on trim from the factory. Strip them out from all the extras (A/c, PowerSteering, Heat, Sound deadener, etc) and they are easily 2400-2800lbs with interior still in it. Strip it out totally for Race Duty and you can drop another 100-150lbs. And they come from the factory with a suspension as close as you can get to a 4-link in a factory car.
I can strip a Dakota out and lose a ton of weight also, but most stock suspension classes have a weight minimum over 3000lbs. I do agree the Mustang suspension is far superior.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: Devilbrad]
#1333090
11/11/12 02:55 PM
11/11/12 02:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,653
Near Reading PA USA
pinkduster
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,653
Near Reading PA USA
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Quote:
Josh, since I know where you are coming from with this....SB's need more HEAD OPTIONS!
Yeah, I'd like to be able to get small block aluminum heads that look like a stock head. You know, something like the 440 source stealth heads, but for small blocks.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: thedriver]
#1333092
11/12/12 12:05 AM
11/12/12 12:05 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,041
michigan woods
imfixinmopars426
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,041
michigan woods
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Quote:
My boy is almost 9. I'm starting to look for a project car already. Something cheap, solid, carb powered.
Would lOve a Mopar for him, but that would mean a car that is nearly 50 years old by the time he's driving.
I keep looking at early 80s Malibu coupes. No value, great platform, huge aftermarket, comfy, it's a real usable car.
Same can be said about the fox body, tho that is less dd friendly when you get 3ft of snow.
What Mopar is missing the most is they didn't build anything for over 20 years that was worth a damn.
....not everyone likes the sound of a 2.2 at 8500 rpm.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: mopartoby]
#1333093
11/12/12 01:47 AM
11/12/12 01:47 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
Winchester 73
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Bought a used W2 engine years ago. It blew to smithereens in my shop. Fixed the heads and bolted them on another shortblock. Ran that baby for years and beat the He!! out of the Fords and Chevies running the same rules. I had a few thousand in the engine and the MOPAR crowd said I was made of money and that is why I won. BS
Later wanted something to run KOS. Bought a set of Arringtons. $3,500. Guy builds an engine for me and it blows up. Arrington fixes the heads and the engine. $8,000 to repair, outrageous. Next time out it blew holes in the pistons he cut too thin. Got all the bugs out and Arrington sells another set of these heads to a guy up the road for $2,000. I ran this little engine for years and won a lot of races. After Arrington wiped my checking account clean I learned to do my own work. And yes, Arrington taught me a lot I did not know. Most Mopar guys thought I had some kind of UNOBTAINIUM stuff. No, it was just leftover truck stuff that could have built an engine fairly cheap considering the power.
Then called Patterson to buy a set of W8's I saw on the internet. Talked to Allen about the build and he talked me into another set of heads. They cost me less than any set of Allumin Indy's at the time. I got extremely lucky on the valvetrain cost and had a complete engine that would stomp a mudhole in about any thing on the planet and it was cheap. Mopar guys made their excuses and even ran to the Chevy and Ford crowd making up tales as to why my stuff was so fast. Patterson could not hold people at gunpoint to buy these heads. When they were all bought up everybody wanted a set and was willing to pay whatever.
Just bought a little P7R5 combo. Less than half what a competive chevie or Ford cost. I have to do a little work and put it together but, I bet it will run well too.
You just have to open your eyes. The Mopar crowd does not have a hard core guy on every street. So you have to think for yourself. Talk to people across the nation. And figure this stuff out. If you are not able to do this maybe you need to race the less challenging makes. I race a Small Block mopar for some very good reasons. Tall decks, Raised cams, and bore spacing. I don't have to run some one off block to get this. I can appreciate the Mopar design. Not sure what is in it for the BB crowd cause I know a lot less about them. But, I know a hardcore BB guy who traveled 500 miles to buy a 99 HEMI and took it back because the valve guide had a nick on the bottom of it. A $100K engine for under $20K but that little nick was a deal breaker. This is your typical MOPAR guy. Wants something for nothing and aint willing to work for crap.
Leon
i can add a pondering to this-alot of these fifty different heads for ford and chevy are going to be obsolete becose of the ls stuff.i dont think companies are selling the old stuff anymore.the ls stuff is so good what the heck can you sell to someone?i think these days our share of the market is pretty good.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: bobs66440]
#1333095
11/12/12 03:18 AM
11/12/12 03:18 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 105
ScatPackNick
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 105
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Quote:
Affordability. That's the biggest issue. We can make the same HP numbers as the Chevy guys. It just costs twice as much. And the parts are insane.
+1 couldnt have said it better myself
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: Winchester 73]
#1333096
11/12/12 04:28 AM
11/12/12 04:28 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 490
IL
EchoSixMike
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 490
IL
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Quote:
we do however have some thing chevy does not have,a V10.i keep seeing the magnum v10s show up in wrecking yards(gas prices?)
i need an intake,and dist-ill make headers for that badboy!
What are you gonna put it in? That's a huge issue, outside of trucks, Dodge has jack squat to put a V8/V10 in. The diaper wipers have all the 60's/early 70's "classics" tied up with factory original dust competitions and God forbid you cut up something. The mid-late 70's stuff is mostly ugly garbage that kids don't want. What rear wheel drive cars did Mopar make in the 80's and 90's? The Viper? Too much $$$, still. The (Mitsu) Stealth? Good turbo car, fit a V8 in there? In ten years the new hemi stuff might be cheap enough, but that's ten years down the pipe(and we'll be looking for the "juice" like Mad Max by then). And they still don't have squat for manual tranny(ie "fun") stuff that's cheap. The 80's and 90's were a key point in time that got missed. Stuff that was cheap and V8, before safety garbage turned every vehicle into a 4000lb tank on wheels or EPA garbage turned it into a gas sipping wimp made out of recycled beer cans. S/F.....Ken M
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#1333097
11/12/12 07:22 AM
11/12/12 07:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,142
Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,142
Melbourne , Australia
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From a business standpoint, the holes I see in the market are:
1/ Wider bore spaced block for BB Mopar and head to go with it. This is probably the biggest limitation for a BB Mopar making some serious power.
2/ Gen III Hemi parts, this is an expanding market waiting to be tapped into. Once the fear of the unknown has gone they will take a much larger market share.
3/ A cylinder head of similar specs to a W5
4/ A customer base that doesn't whinge and moan that everything is so expensive. The market share for Mopar is much, much smaller that GM, and to a lesser extent Ford. Buick and Oldsmobile guys don't complain, they're happy to get what comes out.
5/ An aftermarket Torqueflite case that has a removable SFI bell housing like the Powerglide and TH400. Make it compatable with a Pro Flite.
In many cases, most of the parts we curretly have have been developed for racing or because a small operator has wanted to do it for themselves. Mopar parts aren't going to turn anyone into a millionaire!
Alan Jones
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: joshking440]
#1333099
11/12/12 08:36 AM
11/12/12 08:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
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Quote:
What are some of the industry items that you think we are lacking?
Bolt-in OVERDRIVE transmissions for bigblocks.
With ever rising fuel-costs, a beefed-up A500 with a welded BigBlock-bellhousing would be nice IMO.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1333100
11/12/12 02:02 PM
11/12/12 02:02 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,106
Quebec, Canada
Diablo
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,106
Quebec, Canada
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Anyone who is talking about not having bigger Borespace mopar stuff just hasn't looked at what Goodwin Performance has been doing for the last 5-10 years! Them and Kaase kept the 5 inch stuff alive and now Goodwin has their own 5 inch to 5.3inch stuff available. If your serious and have the $$$ to play then look them up and enjoy! Goodwin performance http://goodwincompetition.com/Phone: 920-685-3000 Mention Doug Cote sent you their way:)
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#1333102
11/12/12 07:05 PM
11/12/12 07:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
Winchester 73
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
we do however have some thing chevy does not have,a V10.i keep seeing the magnum v10s show up in wrecking yards(gas prices?)
i need an intake,and dist-ill make headers for that badboy!
What are you gonna put it in? That's a huge issue, outside of trucks, Dodge has jack squat to put a V8/V10 in. The diaper wipers have all the 60's/early 70's "classics" tied up with factory original dust competitions and God forbid you cut up something. The mid-late 70's stuff is mostly ugly garbage that kids don't want. What rear wheel drive cars did Mopar make in the 80's and 90's? The Viper? Too much $$$, still. The (Mitsu) Stealth? Good turbo car, fit a V8 in there? In ten years the new hemi stuff might be cheap enough, but that's ten years down the pipe(and we'll be looking for the "juice" like Mad Max by then). And they still don't have squat for manual tranny(ie "fun") stuff that's cheap. The 80's and 90's were a key point in time that got missed. Stuff that was cheap and V8, before safety garbage turned every vehicle into a 4000lb tank on wheels or EPA garbage turned it into a gas sipping wimp made out of recycled beer cans. S/F.....Ken M
i would think a 76 shortbox truck with a v10 would be cool,how bout a lightened up dakota with the radiator battery and fuel cell against the tailgate?my bigblock in my dar is not much shorter than a v10 becus the v10 has serpantine drive.
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No money out here anymore for go fast parts. Lucky just to be able to race once in awhile at 150 dollars per day cost. 
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