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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: jamesc]
#1333062
11/10/12 05:10 PM
11/10/12 05:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Even the AMC guys had an aluminum SB for years, we just FINALLY got one (thanks Ritter! ) when the bank lets me take out a second mortgage I will buy one. The new air wolf heads seem to be able to fill the gap between W9s and eddelbrocks, I guess a lot of you guys have not seen them yet  now if we could get a "fast as cast" version for a little less than the eddy but with a little more flow/cross section we will be set on heads. 1 587 915 X heads 2 Magnum 3 EQ 4 RHS 5 6 eddelbrock 7 W2 8 Air wolf (only ranked above W2 because it's aluminum) 9 Indy 360-1 10 Indy 360-2 11 W9 12 P7 There is a lot of overlap there and the orders can be argued but there are less gaps in there than you would think. That doesn't even take into account the less common disco stuff like aluminum W2s W5 W7 W8 aluminum magnums, small and large port commandos or underachievers like the B1 or the as of yet un-proven pro-comp. The only gap I see could possibly be filled by the pro comp. Or a cool niche head like a twisted wedge magnum. SB chevy stuff gets a lot more expensive when they start doing shaft mount rockers, 18* heads, stroke over 3.75 inches, .904 lifters... the SB mopar has soooooo much more potential, you ever seen anyone put a 4.25 stroke in a stock 350 block? The gen III hemi would make the old SB stuff all the way up to W9 obsolete with a few cheaper aftermarket goodies though that stuff is incredible and needs no aftermarket heads or blocks.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1333064
11/10/12 06:20 PM
11/10/12 06:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
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Quote:
Even the AMC guys had an aluminum SB for years, we just FINALLY got one (thanks Ritter! ) when the bank lets me take out a second mortgage I will buy one. The new air wolf heads seem to be able to fill the gap between W9s and eddelbrocks, I guess a lot of you guys have not seen them yet now if we could get a "fast as cast" version for a little less than the eddy but with a little more flow/cross section we will be set on heads.
1 587 915 X heads
2 Magnum
3 EQ
4 RHS
5
6 eddelbrock
7 W2
8 Air wolf (only ranked above W2 because it's aluminum)
9 Indy 360-1
10 Indy 360-2
11 W9
12 P7
There is a lot of overlap there and the orders can be argued but there are less gaps in there than you would think. That doesn't even take into account the less common disco stuff like aluminum W2s W5 W7 W8 aluminum magnums, small and large port commandos or underachievers like the B1 or the as of yet un-proven pro-comp. The only gap I see could possibly be filled by the pro comp. Or a cool niche head like a twisted wedge magnum.
SB chevy stuff gets a lot more expensive when they start doing shaft mount rockers, 18* heads, stroke over 3.75 inches, .904 lifters... the SB mopar has soooooo much more potential, you ever seen anyone put a 4.25 stroke in a stock 350 block?
The gen III hemi would make the old SB stuff all the way up to W9 obsolete with a few cheaper aftermarket goodies though that stuff is incredible and needs no aftermarket heads or blocks.
Air wolf and the eddy's are the only thing we have before a full on Indy deal (and the air wolfs are pro comp heads with a port job by the way).
Having one head as the in between does not suffice- why the hell do our "in between heads" flow what an entry level SBS or SBF head flow??? and they have way more of them too!
I agree with some of the previous comments that mopar guys are cheap, but I think that is because mopar guys are sooo used to being bent over for parts because of the extra mopar expense to them, that they would rather just keep what they have instead of sell their right arm to afford a new part....If there were more options, and affordable ones at that, there would be guys out there all over them in my opinion....To even deny that mopar stuff is not more expensive, from entry level to all out, is in my opinion just plain ignorance (not directing this to you Dave, just making a point in this post about that as well  )
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: joshking440]
#1333065
11/10/12 06:55 PM
11/10/12 06:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
What are some of the industry items that you think we are lacking?
Certain head designs? Different Block options?
Where do you think we are lacking something
Blocks in every deck height, bore space, material, etc.......new cyinder head castings every 15 minutes and the top shops in the nation grinding away on these parts extracting every drop of power.
This is what's available to Ford & GM guys who then go out and BUY IT, without crying about how much it deviates from assemble line configurations.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: thedriver]
#1333066
11/10/12 07:25 PM
11/10/12 07:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,714
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,714
North Dakota
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Quote:
My boy is almost 9. I'm starting to look for a project car already. Something cheap, solid, carb powered.
Would lOve a Mopar for him, but that would mean a car that is nearly 50 years old by the time he's driving.
I keep looking at early 80s Malibu coupes. No value, great platform, huge aftermarket, comfy, it's a real usable car.
Same can be said about the fox body, tho that is less dd friendly when you get 3ft of snow.
What Mopar is missing the most is they didn't build anything for over 20 years that was worth a damn. 
Absolutely. You have to have something that future generations will want. Only then do you have a future consumer base that will buy parts in quantity. There is no use in making trick parts if there are only a few who are willing to buy them.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1333068
11/10/12 07:33 PM
11/10/12 07:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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It would be nice if Mopar could make a crank that will oil @ 7800RPM+ for the Gen 3 Hemi. The GM guys have used stock cranks without TOO many problems for years. I think the Mopar engineers have their head in the sand. I bet the GM LS engine users aren't having oiling problems with their stock cranks. Hold me back,,I think I'm headed to the dark side..  Also,,Josh, if you are trying to get Mopar to listen to the people's wants/needs...good luck. I'm sure you know some people in the Mopar esablishment.
Last edited by CHAPPER; 11/10/12 07:36 PM.
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: jamesc]
#1333070
11/10/12 10:04 PM
11/10/12 10:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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Bought a used W2 engine years ago. It blew to smithereens in my shop. Fixed the heads and bolted them on another shortblock. Ran that baby for years and beat the He!! out of the Fords and Chevies running the same rules. I had a few thousand in the engine and the MOPAR crowd said I was made of money and that is why I won. BS
Later wanted something to run KOS. Bought a set of Arringtons. $3,500. Guy builds an engine for me and it blows up. Arrington fixes the heads and the engine. $8,000 to repair, outrageous. Next time out it blew holes in the pistons he cut too thin. Got all the bugs out and Arrington sells another set of these heads to a guy up the road for $2,000. I ran this little engine for years and won a lot of races. After Arrington wiped my checking account clean I learned to do my own work. And yes, Arrington taught me a lot I did not know. Most Mopar guys thought I had some kind of UNOBTAINIUM stuff. No, it was just leftover truck stuff that could have built an engine fairly cheap considering the power.
Then called Patterson to buy a set of W8's I saw on the internet. Talked to Allen about the build and he talked me into another set of heads. They cost me less than any set of Allumin Indy's at the time. I got extremely lucky on the valvetrain cost and had a complete engine that would stomp a mudhole in about any thing on the planet and it was cheap. Mopar guys made their excuses and even ran to the Chevy and Ford crowd making up tales as to why my stuff was so fast. Patterson could not hold people at gunpoint to buy these heads. When they were all bought up everybody wanted a set and was willing to pay whatever.
Just bought a little P7R5 combo. Less than half what a competive chevie or Ford cost. I have to do a little work and put it together but, I bet it will run well too.
You just have to open your eyes. The Mopar crowd does not have a hard core guy on every street. So you have to think for yourself. Talk to people across the nation. And figure this stuff out. If you are not able to do this maybe you need to race the less challenging makes. I race a Small Block mopar for some very good reasons. Tall decks, Raised cams, and bore spacing. I don't have to run some one off block to get this. I can appreciate the Mopar design. Not sure what is in it for the BB crowd cause I know a lot less about them. But, I know a hardcore BB guy who traveled 500 miles to buy a 99 HEMI and took it back because the valve guide had a nick on the bottom of it. A $100K engine for under $20K but that little nick was a deal breaker. This is your typical MOPAR guy. Wants something for nothing and aint willing to work for crap.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: topbrent]
#1333072
11/10/12 10:28 PM
11/10/12 10:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
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you can get ex police chargers at auction pretty cheap now a days..
see a couple at my local track...fwiw..
the new hemi is where its at..there everywhere..
and getting cheap.
they make plenty of hp....
365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: cheapstreetdustr]
#1333073
11/10/12 11:54 PM
11/10/12 11:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
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Probally brain cells since we pay a lot more than the other makes... or maybe that's from too much beer.
Honestly, I'd say better pricing, but not junk like some places make and sell cheap.
68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert
340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z
66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD. 07 Ram CTD, 07 Ram
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: mokid]
#1333074
11/11/12 03:36 AM
11/11/12 03:36 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
joshking440
OP
Lunch is on me!
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OP
Lunch is on me!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
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Quote:
I was talking to a racer at Mopar Week End at Gateway about how he has designed a new block and heads for big block/Hemi He was talking way over my head but addressed many issues that have been metioned, He owned and raced a black Barracuda with true flames, raced both ss/aa and 10 inch tire, He went on to say his design has been tested and he was having heads and blocks cast. Maybe someone knows him???
your talkin about Mike Sanders aka Colonel Sanders aka Husslin Hoosier
He had Russ at Indy make him a 4.84 bore space Hemi Block (Russ can make plenty if someone wants)
Stage 5 Made a set of 4.84 bore space heads (they too can make more)
It takes custom Pistons but a standard crank and rods.
sheet metal intake
standard stage 5 hemi stuff beyond that. it will be on a dyno here soon. I hope to be there to document it for a magazine article
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: joshking440]
#1333075
11/11/12 04:56 AM
11/11/12 04:56 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Why the hell everybody needs 20-30 different heads for I will never understand. A few good heads that work great should be enough.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: smokinwoody]
#1333078
11/11/12 11:09 AM
11/11/12 11:09 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 490
IL
EchoSixMike
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 490
IL
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Aftermarket GM blocks and such are cheaper than BBM stuff, sure, that's economy of scale, but there are guys spending $$$ out there, just not Mopar guys. My local engine builder has become something of a Ford FE guy, much to his unhappiness  and the FE guys are spending, as much, if not more than, BBM guys, to have less power. Predator heads cost in line with similar GM products, Big Chief/Duke/Victor, they're all about $3-3.5K for bare heads, the C460 are $2K. You want 450-500cfm, you need to spend the money. Don't know where B-1TS's fit in there, probably similar to the BigDukes, both are Brodix products. I don't know why more people aren't building off the B-1 heads, seems like a good middle ground. Sure, you can't run factory crap or Chine rockers, so freaking what, no serious GM/Ford guys run factory/Chine either. Jesel/T&D stuff costs the same AFAIK. Hydraulic lifters ain't for racing, so not relevant IMO. All the serious GM/Ford guys are running Mopar lifters or sometimes going to 1.00" lifters, so no cheaper there. The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids. A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money. S/F....Ken M
Last edited by EchoSixMike; 11/11/12 11:11 AM.
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#1333079
11/11/12 11:19 AM
11/11/12 11:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,784
PA
W5DART66
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,784
PA
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Quote:
Aftermarket GM blocks and such are cheaper than BBM stuff, sure, that's economy of scale, but there are guys spending $$$ out there, just not Mopar guys. My local engine builder has become something of a Ford FE guy, much to his unhappiness and the FE guys are spending, as much, if not more than, BBM guys, to have less power.
Predator heads cost in line with similar GM products, Big Chief/Duke/Victor, they're all about $3-3.5K for bare heads, the C460 are $2K. You want 450-500cfm, you need to spend the money. Don't know where B-1TS's fit in there, probably similar to the BigDukes, both are Brodix products. I don't know why more people aren't building off the B-1 heads, seems like a good middle ground. Sure, you can't run factory crap or Chine rockers, so freaking what, no serious GM/Ford guys run factory/Chine either.
Jesel/T&D stuff costs the same AFAIK. Hydraulic lifters ain't for racing, so not relevant IMO. All the serious GM/Ford guys are running Mopar lifters or sometimes going to 1.00" lifters, so no cheaper there.
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money. S/F....Ken M
A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money.
This is the major problem^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#1333080
11/11/12 01:24 PM
11/11/12 01:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
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Quote:
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
I disagree. The 92-96 V8 Magnum powered Dakotas weigh the same and can be just as fast. You can pick them up all day long on Craigslist for under 2k.
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