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Are 4 speeds harder on the thrust bearings (#3 main bearing) than an automatic? or doesn't it make a difference. Thanks

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The 4 speed is harder on the thrust bearing than an automatic,thats a given
I haven't seen any wear that I would worry about though on my stick engines when I freshen them up
Gus

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I've never really noticed anything of consequence. But I do think its a good idea to jump out(disable) the clutch start switch so you dont have to push the pedal in to get the car started.

MB

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I was told by my engine builder to always start the car in neutral with the clutch pedal out, sounded good to me.

Also, I just went through getting my engine rebuilt because the thrust bearing (among other things) was shot. I also found that there may have been a problem of my pilot bearing bearing a touch too tight on my input shaft.

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I've never really noticed anything of consequence. But I do think its a good idea to jump out(disable) the clutch start switch so you dont have to push the pedal in to get the car started.

MB

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I was told by my engine builder to always start the car in neutral with the clutch pedal out, sounded good to me.

Also, I just went through getting my engine rebuilt because the thrust bearing (among other things) was shot. I also found that there may have been a problem of my pilot bearing bearing a touch too tight on my input shaft.

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And someone that rebuilds starters would tell you to shove the clutch in to reduce drag from the trans trying to spin the countershaft in the gear oil

If your pilot bushing / input shaft was tight enough to wear out your thrust bearing you would have never gotten it into gear - it would have the same effect as having the clutch disc rusted to the flywheel.

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And someone that rebuilds starters would tell you to shove the clutch in to reduce drag from the trans trying to spin the countershaft in the gear oil

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And someone that rebuilds starters would tell you to shove the clutch in to reduce drag from the trans trying to spin the countershaft in the gear oil

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Maybe, but unless you are trying to start the car in the Antarctic, there really isnt that much effort required to turn an input/counter shaft in gear oil. Its supported by bearings.

MB

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It isn't the drag from the bearings - it's the drag from turning the countershaft submersed in gear oil.

The reason behind the myth to start in neutral with the clutch out is to protect a dry thrust bearing. Really? Pull apart an engine thats been sitting for 10 years and there will still be an oil film on the bearings. If the oil would completely drip off the crank, it would also drip off the cam, which is much higher loaded - flat tappet cams survive thousands of dry starts quite well. Why? Because even if the visible oil drips off there is still a film that protects the surface from wear. And since oil doesn't evaporate, there is plenty left on/in thrust bearings etc. for cold starts.

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I never said it was the drag from the bearings-not sure how you extracted that from my comment...

The bearings help negate any so called "drag"...Grab an input shaft of an 833 filled with gear oil and turn it with your hand. I've never actually tried it, but the turning torque required to turn that input shaft likely couldn't even be measured with an in/lb torque wrench. Its a total non issue.

I'm not saying if you step on the clutch while starting you will wipe out your thrust bearing, but many other individuals that have great experience also believe its good practice to not do it.

I also wouldn't dare start a race engine that has been sitting for a year(let alone 10 years) without pre lubing it first. I guess I just prefer to err on the side of caution...

MB

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And someone that rebuilds starters would tell you to shove the clutch in to reduce drag from the trans trying to spin the countershaft in the gear oil

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Maybe, but unless you are trying to start the car in the Antarctic, there really isnt that much effort required to turn an input/counter shaft in gear oil. Its supported by bearings.

MB

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It isn't the drag from the bearings - it's the drag from turning the countershaft submersed in gear oil.

The reason behind the myth to start in neutral with the clutch out is to protect a dry thrust bearing. Really? Pull apart an engine thats been sitting for 10 years and there will still be an oil film on the bearings. If the oil would completely drip off the crank, it would also drip off the cam, which is much higher loaded - flat tappet cams survive thousands of dry starts quite well. Why? Because even if the visible oil drips off there is still a film that protects the surface from wear. And since oil doesn't evaporate, there is plenty left on/in thrust bearings etc. for cold starts.

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I never said it was the drag from the bearings-not sure how you extracted that from my comment...

The bearings help negate any so called "drag"...Grab an input shaft of an 833 filled with gear oil and turn it with your hand. I've never actually tried it, but the turning torque required to turn that input shaft likely couldn't even be measured with an in/lb torque wrench. Its a total non issue.

I'm not saying if you step on the clutch while starting you will wipe out your thrust bearing, but many other individuals that have great experience also believe its good practice to not do it.

I also wouldn't dare start a race engine that has been sitting for a year(let alone 10 years) without pre lubing it first. I guess I just prefer to err on the side of caution...

MB

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You said their wasn't that much drag, because it was supported by bearings - that's where I extracted it from your comment.
Big difference in the amount of drag from trying to slowly turn the input with your hand and spin it a couple hundred cranking RPM.
Many people do things, like start cars with the clutch out, because they heard of a guy that met a guy whose uncle did this and he heard you should do it that way. In other words, until someone can use LOGIC and explain to me how that thrust bearing can go bone dry from sitting a short time and cause damage from no lube while being started with the clutch being pushed in - I'll call that MYTH B/S.
And I never said to start a 10 yr old engine - just that there would be oil still in the bearings.