Re: Oil pump opinions
[Re: dartcharger]
#1318743
10/11/12 08:31 AM
10/11/12 08:31 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,072
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
|
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,072
Niles , Ohio
|
We run hi volume pumps in everything.Most say its not necessary but I like the extra flow.Unless its an exoctic build the normal HV pump is all thats needed.I also like to increase the sprong pressure with the MP spring kit.Again my preference.Never had a motor go bad for lack of oil.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
|
|
|
Re: Oil pump opinions
[Re: therocks]
#1318744
10/11/12 08:35 AM
10/11/12 08:35 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
|
Quote:
We run hi volume pumps in everything.Most say its not necessary but I like the extra flow.Unless its an exoctic build the normal HV pump is all thats needed.I also like to increase the sprong pressure with the MP spring kit.Again my preference.Never had a motor go bad for lack of oil.Rocky
We do too. 
|
|
|
Re: Oil pump opinions
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1318747
10/11/12 05:50 PM
10/11/12 05:50 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 180
3rd rock
kloyiod
|
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 180
3rd rock
|
Quote:
A lot of the NHRA Mopar SB racers use the non high volume oil pump and the standard bypass spring,
Non high volume with standard bypass spring???
Do they come with different spring pressures? Then what are the springs they put in high volume pumps? Sounds like you can get options on springs with either pump, Please explain?
|
|
|
Re: Oil pump opinions
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#1318748
10/11/12 06:21 PM
10/11/12 06:21 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
|
Quote:
If its NOT adequate with a standard pump then a HV pump represents a bandaid required in order to reach acceptable pressure in an engine with excess clearances.
That is true, unless you are running full groove bearings which will require additional oil flow. I would say a HV pump is not a bandaid in that situation, more like a fact of life.
Quote:
Quote:
A lot of the NHRA Mopar SB racers use the non high volume oil pump and the standard bypass spring,
Non high volume with standard bypass spring???
Do they come with different spring pressures? Then what are the springs they put in high volume pumps? Sounds like you can get options on springs with either pump, Please explain?
There are two pumps, the regular and the High Volume pump. The HV pump just had a bigger body and a pump rotor, making it pump more oil. There are two bypass springs, the regular spring and the high pressure spring. Both the regular pump and the HV pump come with the standard spring. I think you can order a HV pump to also come with a high pressure spring but the regular HV pumps do not come with them. You can put the high pressure spring in with either the standard or HV pump. All the high pressure spring does is raise the maximum pressure of your oiling system. The only times you ever see maximum oil pressure is when the engine is cold and the oil is thick, and when you wind your engine to max rpm. Since the stock type spring goes to like 75psi or somewhere around there, I've never seen a need to run a higher pressure spring. A higher pressure spring of course does not affect your oil pressure at a hot idle or during normal driving with the engine/oil up to temp.
|
|
|
Re: Oil pump opinions
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1318749
10/11/12 08:10 PM
10/11/12 08:10 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
|
Quote:
That is true, unless you are running full groove bearings which will require additional oil flow.
Really
|
|
|
Re: Oil pump opinions
[Re: kloyiod]
#1318750
10/11/12 10:27 PM
10/11/12 10:27 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176
Bend,OR USA
|
Quote:
Quote:
A lot of the NHRA Mopar SB racers use the non high volume oil pump and the standard bypass spring,
Non high volume with standard bypass spring???
Do they come with different spring pressures? Then what are the springs they put in high volume pumps? Sounds like you can get options on springs with either pump, Please explain?
All the SB high volume oil pumps I have used, many years ago, mid 1990s, had high pressure springs in them that would make between 70 and 80 lbs of pressure before they would open the bypass. Most of the stock type SB liked to be shifted between 5500 rpm and 6500 RPM so there was no need for more than 65 lbs of pressure with hot oil.I have bought the high voume pumps and switch the bypass springs to the standard pressure springs,  Not really the correct thing to do, buy the standard 318 pumps and check them over carefully and use them if they check out okay 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: Oil pump opinions
[Re: babarracuda]
#1318752
10/12/12 03:35 PM
10/12/12 03:35 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
|
You could achieve the same effect with a solenoid controlled pre-oiler, which would not waste power for the rest of its installed life. Any pump requires power to operate. Power comes from the distributor gear in most cases. Using a high volume/high pressure pump, one should always use a better-than-stock oil pump drive. The power to drive the pump is directly proportional to the volume of oil being pumped if pressure is held constant, it is also directly proportional to pressure if volume is held constant. If one uses a high volume pump, let's say 20% larger, power required to turn the pump and not the rear wheels goes up 20%. The same applies to pressure. If one increases the volume by 20% and the pressure by 20%, power requirement increases by 44%. Oil that is pumped up to high pressure stores energy that is released when it is depressurized. So, if you are running at the pressure relief valve setting, that means the relief valve is open. Bypassing some oil directly back into the sump or somewhere causes the oil in the sump to get warmer. The extra energy in the bypassed oil turns into heat which causes sump temperatures to rise. Notice that modern racers are using oil only slightly thicker than water and running way below the "10psi per 1000 rpm" rule of thumb. They are looking for those last three horsepower. If you are driving on the street or bracket racing it may be worth more to you to waste a little energy and keep everything drenched in oil. But if you read and understand this, you will be doing it with your eyes open. End of lecture. R. 
|
|
|
Re: Oil pump opinions
[Re: dogdays]
#1318754
10/12/12 10:07 PM
10/12/12 10:07 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
|
Quote:
Any pump requires power to operate.
Yes but a good question here is how much are we talking? I would love to see a freshly built stockish/mild big block put on a dyno and run. Say one with stock type bearings, freshly rebuilt that clearly does not need a HV pump. Run it on an engine dyno with a standard pump, give it a bunch of pulls get it good and hot. Note the power readings and the engine oil temp. Then swap to a HV pump and repeat the test. While in theory yes a HV pump requires more power to operate and would in theory heat the oil but I would like to see what real testing shows. Would definitely be an interesting read. Does it actually make a measurable difference on the dyno in power loss or oil temp?
|
|
|
Re: Oil pump opinions
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1318757
10/19/12 06:24 AM
10/19/12 06:24 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,792
Greer, SC
TooMany62s
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,792
Greer, SC
|
Quote:
Quote:
If its NOT adequate with a standard pump then a HV pump represents a bandaid required in order to reach acceptable pressure in an engine with excess clearances.
That is true, unless you are running full groove bearings which will require additional oil flow. I would say a HV pump is not a bandaid in that situation, more like a fact of life.
Quote:
Quote:
A lot of the NHRA Mopar SB racers use the non high volume oil pump and the standard bypass spring,
Non high volume with standard bypass spring???
Do they come with different spring pressures? Then what are the springs they put in high volume pumps? Sounds like you can get options on springs with either pump, Please explain?
There are two pumps, the regular and the High Volume pump. The HV pump just had a bigger body and a pump rotor, making it pump more oil. There are two bypass springs, the regular spring and the high pressure spring. Both the regular pump and the HV pump come with the standard spring. I think you can order a HV pump to also come with a high pressure spring but the regular HV pumps do not come with them. You can put the high pressure spring in with either the standard or HV pump. All the high pressure spring does is raise the maximum pressure of your oiling system. The only times you ever see maximum oil pressure is when the engine is cold and the oil is thick, and when you wind your engine to max rpm. Since the stock type spring goes to like 75psi or somewhere around there, I've never seen a need to run a higher pressure spring. A higher pressure spring of course does not affect your oil pressure at a hot idle or during normal driving with the engine/oil up to temp.
According to the guys at Melling a hi volume pump has a different pressure bypass spring than a regular pump. 70lbs, vs. 55 lbs.
http://www.melling.com/Aftermarket/TechTipVideos.aspx
|
|
|
Re: Oil pump opinions
[Re: TooMany62s]
#1318758
10/19/12 01:37 PM
10/19/12 01:37 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176
Bend,OR USA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If its NOT adequate with a standard pump then a HV pump represents a bandaid required in order to reach acceptable pressure in an engine with excess clearances.
That is true, unless you are running full groove bearings which will require additional oil flow. I would say a HV pump is not a bandaid in that situation, more like a fact of life.
Quote:
Quote:
A lot of the NHRA Mopar SB racers use the non high volume oil pump and the standard bypass spring,
Non high volume with standard bypass spring???
Do they come with different spring pressures? Then what are the springs they put in high volume pumps? Sounds like you can get options on springs with either pump, Please explain?
There are two pumps, the regular and the High Volume pump. The HV pump just had a bigger body and a pump rotor, making it pump more oil. There are two bypass springs, the regular spring and the high pressure spring. Both the regular pump and the HV pump come with the standard spring. I think you can order a HV pump to also come with a high pressure spring but the regular HV pumps do not come with them. You can put the high pressure spring in with either the standard or HV pump. All the high pressure spring does is raise the maximum pressure of your oiling system. The only times you ever see maximum oil pressure is when the engine is cold and the oil is thick, and when you wind your engine to max rpm. Since the stock type spring goes to like 75psi or somewhere around there, I've never seen a need to run a higher pressure spring. A higher pressure spring of course does not affect your oil pressure at a hot idle or during normal driving with the engine/oil up to temp.
According to the guys at Melling a hi volume pump has a different pressure bypass spring than a regular pump. 70lbs, vs. 55 lbs.
http://www.melling.com/Aftermarket/TechTipVideos.aspx
The high pressure and the high volume pumps have the high pressure spring 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
|
|
I do like to use the full groove main bearings 
:shruggy :That was on a pump gas low compression 426 M.W. street motor with straigh 30 WT Valvoline non synthetic oil 
That is one of the major reasons I use 5W20WT Valvoline oil, no change in HP or torque going from 80F to 200 F oil temps on repeated engine dyno tests 
