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Engine start up woes #1309040
09/22/12 10:13 PM
09/22/12 10:13 PM
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ROADRCR Offline OP
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Fired up my 416 stroker SB for the first time yesterday.About 45 seconds into the break in a buddy who was helping
yelled FIRE.The header tubes got so hot that the aluminized wrap I had around tubes to protect the starter caught on fire. I also noticed tappet noise(hydraulics).Last but not least there was a lot of heat at the radiator cap. Eddy Aluminum heads, Be Cool Aluminum Radiator, Mezeire Electric water pump and an electric pusher fan (16 inch mounted to an aluminum shroud that has a 16 inch opening) screwed to the radiator). What would make the header tubes get so hot the wrap would catch fire this soon? With the lifters now pumped up what's the best procedure for adjusting the valves? (compcams hydraulics). Any concerns about the engine heating up so fast? I don't want to restart it until I understand what might have gone wrong. My friend who was helping said I am being over cautious and the headers getting super hot on a new motor is normal and just leave off the header wrap and restart the motor and finish the break in. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

Re: Engine start up woes [Re: ROADRCR] #1309041
09/22/12 10:36 PM
09/22/12 10:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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Grand Prairie,Texas
Timing or running lean.

Re: Engine start up woes [Re: ROADRCR] #1309042
09/22/12 10:40 PM
09/22/12 10:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
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North Carolina
cjskotni Offline
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I am nor sure what the safe temp is for the wrap you have but it seems you would have to be running pretty hot to have header wrap catch fire. I though that stuff was fine up until 700+ degrees if not more.

Might be useful to pick up an IR thermometer to peg the header tubes and various parts of the motor to confirm how hot the motor is running.

What could cause this? Timing, carb running uber lean come to mind (other than the obvious WP not working). However, 45 seconds and fire seems pretty fast. Is the motor running well besides the heat?

If your motor was running really lean, you would probably have popping and backfiring. What is your initial timing?

I don't think a motor getting THAT hot in 45 seconds in normal...even on break in. I could be wrong here though.

How's the motor running and what is the timing set to? Sure WP is working?

Re: Engine start up woes [Re: ROADRCR] #1309043
09/22/12 10:50 PM
09/22/12 10:50 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Something is wrong. I'd make a mark 2&1/4" clockwise from the TDC slit which is 35.5 degrees and have your helper who is manning the light turn the housing to that point when it fires (with vac adv capped). Definitely PULL the thermostat & keep it out for breakin. As said lean could do it but someone the other day said that if too RICH the extra fuel could be burning in the header tubes. Any potential carb issue that you can see? Where was it timed at?


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Re: Engine start up woes [Re: cjskotni] #1309044
09/22/12 10:52 PM
09/22/12 10:52 PM
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las vegas
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get a timing light..have it hooked up and ready to go..set timing conservatively ...

have a hose with spray nozzle ready to go to spray radiator..

couple of simple things that go along way..should be part of the basis start up of a new engine.


Tony

70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
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Re: Engine start up woes [Re: cjskotni] #1309045
09/22/12 11:25 PM
09/22/12 11:25 PM
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ROADRCR Offline OP
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WP is working. Engine fired up immediately barely 1/2 turn and she was running and sounded strong with no back fire or popping. I added carb spacer which I will remove for break in since it might contribute to lean condition. Distributor is MSD E-Curve I took off my other SB which I set at their recommended dial settings for start up. For timing purposes while breaking in the engine and holding revs to say 1500 to 2000 rpm where should timing be? Carb is same Demon that I used on other SB and ran great.Thanks to all he offered advice I appreciate it.

Re: Engine start up woes [Re: ROADRCR] #1309046
09/22/12 11:30 PM
09/22/12 11:30 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

. Distributor is MSD E-Curve I took off my other SB which I set at their recommended dial settings for start up. For timing purposes while breaking in the engine and holding revs to say 1500 to 2000 rpm where should timing be?


did that dist work with the start up dial settings when you broke in the other SB? got another dist setup you can sub in to get past the breakin?. 35 with vac adv capped. EDIT I'd keep the RPM at least 2000 if not higher. The more I think about the more I'd bet on timing, something with the MSD box.

Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/22/12 11:38 PM.

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Re: Engine start up woes [Re: ROADRCR] #1309047
09/23/12 01:53 PM
09/23/12 01:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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Quote:

WP is working. Engine fired up immediately barely 1/2 turn and she was running and sounded strong with no back fire or popping. I added carb spacer which I will remove for break in since it might contribute to lean condition. Distributor is MSD E-Curve I took off my other SB which I set at their recommended dial settings for start up. For timing purposes while breaking in the engine and holding revs to say 1500 to 2000 rpm where should timing be? Carb is same Demon that I used on other SB and ran great.Thanks to all he offered advice I appreciate it.




Did the engine run smooth or rough like a mis-fire?

Are you running a MSD Solid State coil? The SS coil?

Did you run that coil with the E-curve in your last motor?

If this is the first time using a MSD SS coil with your E-curve, PUT A REGULAR OIL FILLED COIL ON IMMEDIATELY.

Other than the first batch of E-curve distributors, the E-curve will not work with an Solid State Coil. Took me two distributors and a trip to SEMA to figure that out from MSD themselves.

Re: Engine start up woes [Re: autoxcuda] #1309048
09/23/12 02:02 PM
09/23/12 02:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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Are you sure you didn't spill oil or have oil residue on the header wrap?

I thought you were suppose to adjust the hydraulics with the motor not pumped up with oil. Like when you assemble it on the stand and set the adjustment to the middle of the lifter plunger stroke.

Re: Engine start up woes [Re: ROADRCR] #1309049
09/23/12 04:32 PM
09/23/12 04:32 PM
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Santa Cruz, California
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Lefty Offline
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Quote:

What would make the header tubes get so hot the wrap would catch fire this soon?




Spark happening too late. The fuel air charge is still burning during the exhaust stroke in the head pipes. Turn the engine over till it's on the compression stroke and at the initial timing mark you want to run. Then make sure the dist is turned so the rotor tip is pointing at the center of the #1 cylinder plug wire. That should be very close when you start it.

Re: Engine start up woes [Re: autoxcuda] #1309050
09/23/12 04:55 PM
09/23/12 04:55 PM
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Preload and all preliminary valve train adjustments were made on engine stand.Obviously I missed 1 or 2 of the valve adjustments as the noise was confined. As to the coil it is an MSD Blaster 2 which MSD shows as the correct match for the E-Curve.The more I think about the replies to my post I am thinking it is a timing and or a lean/rich issue. I will find out tomorrow. Thanks for your willingness to help, all is appreciated as it is a sick feeling when something goes seemingly wrong on a new start up.. The E-Curve worked great on my other SB. I think I overlooked the timing issue. Now I need to quiet the 1 or 2 valves that are making a noise.

Re: Engine start up woes [Re: ROADRCR] #1309051
09/23/12 06:48 PM
09/23/12 06:48 PM
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Chino Valley
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one more thing not mentioned; while many of us have fired up a fresh engine in the driveway or garage without it, a BIG fan in front of the car helps too.


Re: Engine start up woes [Re: RodStRace] #1309052
09/23/12 07:23 PM
09/23/12 07:23 PM
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Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:

one more thing not mentioned; while many of us have fired up a fresh engine in the driveway or garage without it, a BIG fan in front of the car helps too.




Agreed. I used a fan and had a hose ready to spray the radiator as mentioned...which I had to do a few times during the 30 min break-in.

Are you running adjustable rocker arms or stock?

Re: Engine start up woes [Re: bobs66440] #1309053
09/23/12 10:14 PM
09/23/12 10:14 PM
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ROADRCR Offline OP
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I am running Hughes Engines adjustable rockers with custom length pushrods and Comp Cams Hydraulic lifters.Thanks for the reminder on the large fan.







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