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Re: Break in oil
[Re: moparpollack]
#1282058
08/10/12 03:22 PM
08/10/12 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
Junky
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
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Quote:
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it's my understanding that diesel oils have the right amount of zinc in them. since i don't know that to be 100% true with a synthetic blend oil i would just get 2 bottles of Lucas breakin additive and one to the break in oil and the other after you change it. most auto parts stores have Lucas.
As far as the diesel oil, they or may not have enough zinc...If you have moderate to high spring pressure, probably not. Id still add a bottle of Comp, EOS, etc.
I know nothing about the Lucas break in oil. Id like to see a lab report on it. If its like the rest of the Lucas stuff...run...
EDIT. Found some info on the Lucas break in oil, looks to be good stuff.
No zinc in any of the deisel oils since they put the cats on them since the zinc plugs them up.
Current heavy duty (diesel) oil has about 1200 ppm zinc...some a bit more, some a bit less. That amount is good for a stock engine. Modified engines need more due to spring pressures and such. Get your facts straight.
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: dogdays]
#1282059
08/10/12 05:49 PM
08/10/12 05:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Here goes nothing.....
You guys are deep into the More's Better theory.
You know, if some is good, more's better and too much is just right!
At least take the time to read the Joe Gibbs literature on Diesel oils. His point is, the extremely high detergent levels in the oil for diesel engines makes it harder for the ZDDP molecules to find a place to stick to. So you can have all the ZDDP in the world but if it can't find a surface, it doesn't do a lot of good.
Several years ago on this board a member detailed an experience with Diesel oils and lubrication failure on a new extremely high output engine. Most pooh-poohed the story, but he had no reason to lie about it. Maybe there is a hidden weakness in the Diesel formulations.
I think that the "use Diesel oil" theory is an article of faith among the believers and expect that its believers cling to the idea out of a religios fervor. Maybe it's time to open our eyes.
R.
i also believe this to be true. the theory of oil is oil simply isn't true once the blending for different applications starts happening. 
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#1282060
08/10/12 06:20 PM
08/10/12 06:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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will not be any problem whatsoever being a semi synthetic. You dont NEED a dino oil to break an engine in...the internet can be a dangerous place.... 
Todd,
Not trying to argue, i was just repeating what Total Seal and other ring mfgs have told me .
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: dogdays]
#1282061
08/10/12 06:21 PM
08/10/12 06:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
His point is, the extremely high detergent levels in the oil for diesel engines makes it harder for the ZDDP molecules to find a place to stick to.
The only problem is Comp and other mfgs specifically suggest Rotella and other diesel oils to use for break in. I would assume that Comp has a handle on detergents and their effects
On the subject of too much zinc can be a bad thing...If we take a base oil with X amount of zinc, add an additive to make the total zinc content B. How much higher of a total zinc content do we have than the zinc content of the oils from the 60s-80s? Its all simple math, I know. But without a VOA from a qt of SH, SG etc oil, etc, Im not sure we can answer that fully. But, Id say its rather important...
Last edited by Von; 08/10/12 06:31 PM.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: dogdays]
#1282063
08/11/12 12:20 AM
08/11/12 12:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
Prince_Valiant
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
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just off the top-of-my-head, I'm not sure Joe Gibbs is right on the "too much detergent" causing ZDDP to not be effective...
...again, without reading too much about it, just knowing how solutes act in solution, I don't think ZDDP needs to *stick* to metal in order to be effective. I guess I've always thought of ZDDP to be like a pressure additive more than anything. It always stays in solution, not necessarily sticking to anything, and as the flat-tappet tries to compress the oil and contact the camshaft, the ZDDP is more or less compressed, and sliding along smoothly against other ZDDP molecules, but always remaining in solution.
The presence of ZDDP (again, I would *imagine*) simply means the oil can withstand more pressure/compression without being displaced off the lifter/cam surface, allowing the oil to be the primary lubricant.
1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express - 360 rwhp, 13.2 @ 103mph
1968 Coronet: 318, 2.76, 15.2 @ 92mph! (SOLD)
1976 Valiant: 360, 3.90, 12.90 @ 106 (SOLD)
1989 Shelby CSX #500/500
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Re: Break in oil
[Re: Prince_Valiant]
#1282064
08/11/12 02:32 AM
08/11/12 02:32 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Regarding the detergents in diesel oil rendering ZDDP weak; I'd take a close look at the source of that assertion. The formulators know how to bring these components together in a way that's effective. For example, API CJ-4 still has healthy amounts ZDDP. Take a look at the test summary for API CJ-4 by clicking HERENotice they're evaluating mushroom-style slider tappets in the Cummins ISB. Is Cummins going to approve an oil with an inherently weak anti-wear package? Probably not; they don't. There's a lot of research and technology that goes into a properly blended motor oil. Read more about it here: What's In Your Motor Oil? - link
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