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Indy head users...Ever see this? #1272807 07/23/12 06:46 PM 07/23/12 06:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,497 PA moparacer OP top fuel
moparacer OP top fuel Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,497 PA	I broke a valve spring on my engine and when it broke, it spun around and chewed up the spring pocket that was machined into the head. I had been having trouble with metal in the oil ever since I put these -1s on the engine, and as a matter of fact, it blew up the first day out with the new heads on it... Well, come to find out after I pulled it apart last night that the metal around the spring pockets is so thin in spots, the springs can break chunks of it off and get into the oil. Look at this pic of the spring pocket that broke. See where it had been breaking off prior to the spring breaking? And look at the spring right beside it. See where its been breaking off and getting into the oil? There is a piece about ready to go.... Just thought I would post this and save someone a years worth of headache and broken parts like I have had.... 7304694-Valvespring007.jpg (562 downloads) 67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: moparacer] #1272808 07/23/12 07:10 PM 07/23/12 07:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA	I bought a used set of 440-1 recently that had the same deal. the springs eating up the heads around the spring pockets I went ahead and machined them flat and bought a set of hardened spring seats that center on the valve guides for my size springs Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: moparacer] #1272809 07/23/12 07:10 PM 07/23/12 07:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida P Performance Only top fuel
Performance Only top fuel P Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida	machine the heads for a proper spring cup and that'll end your problems. machine shop owner and engine builder

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: Performance Only] #1272810 07/23/12 07:32 PM 07/23/12 07:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,406 Ambridge, Pa. R rickraw top fuel
rickraw top fuel R Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,406 Ambridge, Pa.	cups locate the spring better then straight shims.

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: rickraw] #1272811 07/23/12 07:52 PM 07/23/12 07:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,160 PA. pittsburghracer "Little"John
pittsburghracer "Little"John Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,160 PA.	The price difference between hardened valve spring shims and cheap valve spring shims isn't that big of a deal. BUT people want to save a buck so they use the cheap ones. 1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27 Livin and lovin life one day at a time

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: pittsburghracer] #1272812 07/23/12 08:04 PM 07/23/12 08:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,160 PA. pittsburghracer "Little"John
pittsburghracer "Little"John Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,160 PA.	Pretty sure it was hemi Fred that posted the link showing how much a valve spring rotates in the pocket at different rpm's. I couldn't find the link but it is a good one to watch. 1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27 Livin and lovin life one day at a time

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: moparacer] #1272813 07/23/12 09:33 PM 07/23/12 09:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	Think this is what I use http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAN-42343-16/?rtype=10

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: Dodgem] #1272814 07/23/12 09:39 PM 07/23/12 09:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,044 Victoria, Australia Ian super stock
Ian super stock Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,044 Victoria, Australia	just need machine new pockets and get good locater's ,the std indy ones are crap 1.37 60 ft [email]6.0@113[/email] [email]9.57@141[/email] 408 glide 3550lbs new video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Xvq3ZObywQE

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: Ian] #1272815 07/23/12 10:03 PM 07/23/12 10:03 PM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 1,522 Ste-Sophie, Quebec, Canada W Wedgeman pro stock
Wedgeman pro stock W Joined: May 2004 Posts: 1,522 Ste-Sophie, Quebec, Canada	I put spring cups on day 1...have to have those No issues... Dan

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: Performance Only] #1272816 07/23/12 10:13 PM 07/23/12 10:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,497 PA moparacer OP top fuel
moparacer OP top fuel Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,497 PA	Quote: machine the heads for a proper spring cup and that'll end your problems. Whats the proper spring cups? Its a 1.55 OD spring supplied by Bullet. #VS8100 As you can see they have the locators for the inner springs on them already. 67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: pittsburghracer] #1272817 07/23/12 10:19 PM 07/23/12 10:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,497 PA moparacer OP top fuel
moparacer OP top fuel Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,497 PA	Quote: The price difference between hardened valve spring shims and cheap valve spring shims isn't that big of a deal. BUT people want to save a buck so they use the cheap ones. Believe me I don't try to save a buck for anything and I didn't set these up like this... Sorry.... 67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: moparacer] #1272818 07/23/12 10:25 PM 07/23/12 10:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 39 pa catman408 member
catman408 member Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 39 pa	you know u r a chepskake. put a smallblock in and your problems gone. 1989 lebaron 408 B1BA 5.969 1/8@ 116.16 9.393 1/4 @ 148.83 New motor 426 w8 5.683 @122.49 1/8 8.88 @153.49 1/4

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: catman408] #1272819 07/23/12 10:29 PM 07/23/12 10:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,497 PA moparacer OP top fuel
moparacer OP top fuel Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,497 PA	The next small block will be a Chevy Felix. I could have bought 4 or 5 for what I have went through trying to be a Mopar purist. And I would bet a Brodix or a Dart head would have the spring seats cast properly to boot. 67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: moparacer] #1272820 07/23/12 10:32 PM 07/23/12 10:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,044 Victoria, Australia Ian super stock
Ian super stock Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,044 Victoria, Australia	Quote: Quote: machine the heads for a proper spring cup and that'll end your problems. Whats the proper spring cups? Its a 1.55 OD spring supplied by Bullet. #VS8100 As you can see they have the locators for the inner springs on them already. your locator may be the wrong size for your spring COMP VALVE SPRING ID LOCATORS 1.550" O.D. Spring Inside Dia .715" .060" Thick 1.37 60 ft [email]6.0@113[/email] [email]9.57@141[/email] 408 glide 3550lbs new video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Xvq3ZObywQE

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: Ian] #1272821 07/23/12 10:46 PM 07/23/12 10:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,497 PA moparacer OP top fuel
moparacer OP top fuel Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,497 PA	Quote: Quote: Quote: machine the heads for a proper spring cup and that'll end your problems. Whats the proper spring cups? Its a 1.55 OD spring supplied by Bullet. #VS8100 As you can see they have the locators for the inner springs on them already. your locator may be the wrong size for your spring COMP VALVE SPRING ID LOCATORS 1.550" O.D. Spring Inside Dia .715" .060" Thick Mine are .060 thick .730 ID and correct for the spring. 67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: moparacer] #1272822 07/23/12 11:50 PM 07/23/12 11:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,044 Victoria, Australia Ian super stock
Ian super stock Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,044 Victoria, Australia	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: machine the heads for a proper spring cup and that'll end your problems. Whats the proper spring cups? Its a 1.55 OD spring supplied by Bullet. #VS8100 As you can see they have the locators for the inner springs on them already. your locator may be the wrong size for your spring COMP VALVE SPRING ID LOCATORS 1.550" O.D. Spring Inside Dia .715" .060" Thick Mine are .060 thick .730 ID and correct for the spring. try these COMP CAMS VALVE SPRING LOCATOR SEAT CUPS 1.780" O.D. .640" I.D. .060" Thick 1.37 60 ft [email]6.0@113[/email] [email]9.57@141[/email] 408 glide 3550lbs new video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Xvq3ZObywQE

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: Performance Only] #1272823 07/23/12 11:57 PM 07/23/12 11:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA bigtimeauto Trophy Winner
bigtimeauto Trophy Winner Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA	Quote: machine the heads for a proper spring cup and that'll end your problems. Correct! BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: bigtimeauto] #1272824 07/24/12 01:05 AM 07/24/12 01:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,647 aotearoa rebel master
rebel master Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,647 aotearoa	when i foolishly ordered my heads thru ICH i asked them to be machined for 1.625 spring cups, "you don't need them" was their answer," you can do everything with a 1.550 spring". ok i'll go with that so i asked them to be machined for 1.550 cups, "you don't need them, spring locators are much better", well they were wrong & i experianced exactly what you posted. first time the heads came off i had them machined for cups & lowered the cup seat position 0.040 so i could go for 2" installed if i needed. those spring locator shims were shyte.

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: rebel] #1272825 07/24/12 01:30 AM 07/24/12 01:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,497 PA moparacer OP top fuel
moparacer OP top fuel Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,497 PA	Quote: when i foolishly ordered my heads thru ICH i asked them to be machined for 1.625 spring cups, "you don't need them" was their answer," you can do everything with a 1.550 spring". ok i'll go with that so i asked them to be machined for 1.550 cups, "you don't need them, spring locators are much better", well they were wrong & i experianced exactly what you posted. first time the heads came off i had them machined for cups & lowered the cup seat position 0.040 so i could go for 2" installed if i needed. those spring locator shims were shyte. If they cast about 1/8 inch more material around the spring seats it wouldn't be a problem with 1.550 springs. I would imagine if you machined them for 1.625 springs it would also take care of it because it would clean off those thin spots that are just about guaranteed to chip and flake off due to the spring harmonics. 67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174

Re: Indy head users...Ever see this? [Re: moparacer] #1272826 07/24/12 11:05 AM 07/24/12 11:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	That can happen on most any head.Use hardened shims or as mentioned spring cups.Cups can be purchased for most spring diameters. [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

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