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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: 696pack] #1268433
07/17/12 04:54 PM
07/17/12 04:54 PM
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Eastern shore, New England
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roadrunner69s Offline
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If you wanted a big block muscle car with a stick then you had to settle for a 383. I don't know if there was a limit to the rpms but my '69 RR came factory equipped with 4 speed and a 3.55 peformance axle package. Still have a copy of the build sheet. Besides the AC it had power windows, pdb, ps, am/fm, tinted glass, rear defogger, road wheels, fender turn signals, bucket seats, and hood perf. paint. And of course it was green. The intake manifold, heads, and 1/2 the AC system are still sitting out in the garage. The last owner didn't want them.

All these '68-'69 383-4v RR's and SBees with a/c (stick or auto) came with a slightly detuned 383 with a 10% lower compression ratio and a weaker cam). This was a 383 Commando engine even if some or all of them were badged or called Magnum or "road runner" engines. I never saw a factory documented 440-4v stick car with A/C. But saw a couple of them that "claimed" to be legit (ie undocumented).

Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: 696pack] #1268434
07/17/12 06:01 PM
07/17/12 06:01 PM
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Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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DPelletier Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If the car has a broadcast sheet that will tell you if it was factory built.




...and until or unless said FT, BS or other document surfaces, then the right answer is "not available".


Dave




No, the right answer is not available in the autorized dealer order guide.

Anything like this was available from any auto manufacturer if you were the right person.





It's not quite as simple as that Darryl (hello again, BTW). 99% of these cars that we hear about simply never existed. Most were modified or were a story about "a friend of a friend's brother's sister's aunt had a ..." Note that I didn't say 100%, but the few special ordered, executive, "back door" cars are few and far between.

"Trust but Verify"


Dave

Last edited by DPelletier; 07/17/12 06:02 PM.

1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: DPelletier] #1268435
07/23/12 04:34 PM
07/23/12 04:34 PM
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AZ.
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696pack Offline
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I just had a conversation with an older gentleman asking about my 66 Charger that said he had one he bought new in 1966. He said it got terrific mileage and that it had a /6 with a 4 speed. I asked if he was sure about that combination as all the printed info shows the 318 as standard and no /6 available in a 1966 Charger. He said "well, that is wrong because I had one new." He said that he had a 65 Barracuda with a 318 that got horrible mileage and the dealer worked on it for months and they could not figure it out so when the 66s came out he traded for the 66 Charger and they gave him his original purchase price on the Barracuda back in trade because of the problems with the car.

Just goes to show you that these things did happen.

Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: 696pack] #1268436
07/23/12 05:06 PM
07/23/12 05:06 PM
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Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt Offline
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it was probably another Barracuda 40+years/details & memories SUCK!!

Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: 696pack] #1268437
07/23/12 05:06 PM
07/23/12 05:06 PM
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Posts: 1,357
central Florida
VL21 Offline
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Uh, no. Not buying either part of that one.


It takes gasoline to interest me.
Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: 696pack] #1268438
07/23/12 05:41 PM
07/23/12 05:41 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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DPelletier Offline
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Quote:


Just goes to show you that these things did happen.





....sure they happened.... but about 10X less frequently than you hear about though. Most of these stories are, well....just stories.

...never heard about the factory 6 pack 426 Hemi cars? or the 1974 Hemi cars? or the 440 Hemis or...well, you get the idea. We've all heard of these "weren't supposed to exist type cars". I suppose whether or not you choose to believe depends on your own personality, but IMO the VAST majority of these stories are about cars that simply didn't exist; they were modified (yes, sometimes even before they left the lot) or the owner's recollection isn't quite up to snuff. and then sometimes people just make stuff up for a variety of reasons. Several times over the years people have come to me with one of these stories and every time when I looked at the car, I found that it wasn't really what it was claimed to be.

funny how usually there is absolutely nothing concrete to back these claims up.

call me a pessimist


Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: DPelletier] #1268439
07/23/12 08:05 PM
07/23/12 08:05 PM
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Harlan, Iowa
69CoronetRT Offline
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Quote:


call me a pessimist




...or a realist. I agree. How come NONE of the 440-4 speed A/C cars or any of the other supposedly 'special built' cars (70 Daytona anyone?) have surfaced?


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1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs.
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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: 6bblgt] #1268440
07/23/12 08:07 PM
07/23/12 08:07 PM
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Harlan, Iowa
69CoronetRT Offline
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Quote:

it was probably another Barracuda




Could have been Marlin....


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1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs.
Over 2,000 thanks to you!
Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: 696pack] #1268441
07/24/12 11:13 AM
07/24/12 11:13 AM
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I don't think his Barracuda would have come with a 318 then. I'd say it had a 273 unless it was changed when the car was fairly new.

Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: dan9] #1268442
07/24/12 11:52 AM
07/24/12 11:52 AM
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West Tennessee
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Were any big block 4 speed cars available with a "smaller" gear than 3.23 (2.94 or 2.76)?

Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: RSNOMO] #1268443
07/24/12 12:51 PM
07/24/12 12:51 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

'Anything like this was available from any auto manufacturer if you were the right person.'

Bullseye...

We've talked to enough folks from Lynch Road, and Hamtramck to know this as fact...




How would they handle options that the model line NEVER had? The 69 R/T listed above is said to have a POWER SEAT, that wasn't even available in a B body till something like 75 or 76 ... if at all.

Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: roadrunner69s] #1268444
07/24/12 12:54 PM
07/24/12 12:54 PM
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Quote:


All these '68-'69 383-4v RR's and SBees with a/c (stick or auto) came with a slightly detuned 383 with a 10% lower compression ratio and a weaker cam). This was a 383 Commando engine even if some or all of them were badged or called Magnum or "road runner" engines. I never saw a factory documented 440-4v stick car with A/C. But saw a couple of them that "claimed" to be legit (ie undocumented).




Somewhat incorrect , the 330HP 383 , which is what the A/C RR and SB had had the same overstated compression ratio as the 335hp engine , 10.0 , but actually 9.2. The camshaft, valve springs and the tune were the difference.

Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: 6bblgt] #1268445
07/24/12 02:12 PM
07/24/12 02:12 PM
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1. First of all I find it interesting that people behind their key boards that did not have a face to face conversation with the original owner as I did can question his memory. The guy is not senile, is still driving and seem very sharp to me.

2. My bad. I said 318 he said V8 in the 65 Barracuda.

3. The guy and I talked fro quite a while and he was a car lover. He still has the 78 Ford pick up he bought new and was driving it. I still looks like new with 300 miles on it. He was spouting facts about it as well. The guy obviously has a great memory.

There were many Corvette special built cars for execs. that survived mainly because more people revered Corvettes from the beginning of them. They did not simply become just old cars that ended up in the junkyard like an A/C equipped 4 speed 440 car likely did.

The factory would build nearly anything a customer was willing to pay for to make a sale. There were only a coulpe of things for them to consider. If the parts were standard readily available but not necessarily available in a particular model they would build it if the customer would wait for the scheduling. If there was a concern that the special order may have a negative effect warrany wise for the corporation then likely it would not get built unless someone internally would approve it. Say a factory exec or corporate officer wanted a 4 speed 440 with A/V for themselves or a family memeber then it would get built. For the average customer off the street likely did not happen. In the case of the /6 manual trans 1966 Charger, why not? The Coronet built on the same platform was available that way. All the parts were available and a 4 speed fits the same bellhousing as a 3 speed.

What the factory would and would not do is pretty easy to figure out it is simple common sense as to what they would and would not do.

Ask Doug Hammer how many 69 Chargers he has on file that came from the factory with a 383 magnum and then try and find it as an option in any dealer info. It was supposed to be a Super Bee and RR engine only but there were a lot of them factory installed at the factory.

Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: 696pack] #1268446
07/24/12 03:53 PM
07/24/12 03:53 PM
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central Florida
VL21 Offline
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Quote:



My bad. I said 318 he said V8 in the 65 Barracuda.

In the case of the /6 manual trans 1966 Charger, why not? The Coronet built on the same platform was available that way. All the parts were available and a 4 speed fits the same bellhousing as a 3 speed.





Now I'll buy the Barracuda story.
Still ain't buying the Charger story, and now not going for the Coronet one either. No 4spd even with the 318. 361 2bbl and up.
Barracuda had \6 4spd option tho in 64-65, not sure of 66. For some reason, I think this was dropped.

My dad was CPD dealer, '62-80, during my misspent youth. I was there.

7305986-codger.gif (96 downloads)

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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: VL21] #1268447
07/24/12 04:00 PM
07/24/12 04:00 PM
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1966 Sport Fury 440 4spd and air factory was dual snorkle air cleaner engine saw it rode in it and almost bought it Know the right people and any combo is possible

Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: Paul_Fancsali] #1268448
07/24/12 04:24 PM
07/24/12 04:24 PM
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Castlegar, BC, Canada
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I caught up with my buddy and his Charger. It was born an automatic. My bad, everyone.


Bloody Mary, Full of Vodka, Blessed art thou among cocktails....

Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: That AMC Guy] #1268449
07/24/12 04:49 PM
07/24/12 04:49 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

I caught up with my buddy and his Charger. It was born an automatic. My bad, everyone.




How about that power seat claim ???

Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: Paul_Fancsali] #1268450
07/24/12 05:35 PM
07/24/12 05:35 PM
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Quote:

1966 Sport Fury 440 4spd and air factory was dual snorkle air cleaner engine saw it rode in it and almost bought it Know the right people and any combo is possible




Yes but in 1966 only a 350 h.p. engine was available which had the lower lift cam unlike the 383 H.P. and the 440s with same came that came in the 375 h.p.

The reason A/C was not available with 4 speed and high lift cam was because of problems with overreved compressors.

Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: 696pack] #1268451
07/24/12 07:20 PM
07/24/12 07:20 PM
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central Florida
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Quote:





The reason A/C was not available with 4 speed and high lift cam was because of problems with overreved compressors.




Yes I agree, that was the reason given! Though I never agreed with it.

In 1973 we sold a Duster340, 4spd and air to a soldier who was going to be in Texas for a couple years.
Was a really neat car, buckets,console,dark green/white vinyl top white interior, rallyes,PS PDB etc pretty loaded up car for a Duster.
And even then a/c was sort of an oddity for us, in Vermont.

Took it back in trade a few years later, sold it to a deadbeat named Ricky Roberts who blew the engine.


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Re: 440, 4-speed, A/C ? [Re: 696pack] #1268452
07/25/12 02:09 AM
07/25/12 02:09 AM
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Harlan, Iowa
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Quote:



Yes but in 1966 only a 350 h.p. engine was available which had the lower lift cam unlike the 383 H.P. and the 440s with same came that came in the 375 h.p.

The reason A/C was not available with 4 speed and high lift cam was because of problems with overreved compressors.




D, a couple of thoughts.....

The 68-69 383 four speed A/C cars came with the 330 horse engine. Why couldn't the 440-four speed A/C cars come with the lower powered 440?

Compressor speed - couldn't that have been easily solved with a different size pulley?

383-4speed A/C car production is relatively small. There were a lot fewer 440 equipped cars. How large of a market could there have been for this combination? Would you have sold 10? 20? 100? a year?

Would it have been worth it (remember Chrysler was supposed to be a for profit business) to design, build, ship, store, inventory and promote the availability plus deal with any back end warranty or repair issues for a small run?

(Just to reminder, the only thing that made the 66 383 an "HP" was making it a 4-bbl. There wasn't an 383 335 HP variant in the B bodies until 68 nor the 440 HP cam until 67. No 375 horse 440 until 67. Just want to keep our engines straight to keep the thread on topic)

Last edited by 69CoronetRT; 07/25/12 02:13 AM.

Seeking:

1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs.
Over 2,000 thanks to you!
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