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roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? #1260932 07/02/12 05:39 PM 07/02/12 05:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa J Jonnyj00 OP member
Jonnyj00 OP member J Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa	Im trying to decide whether to keep with the old flat tappet cams or make the move to a roller. I dont need high lift at all around .590. So some pros and cons for each would be great. I have heard that rollers require more maintenance like valve springs changes more often and stuff like that but I dont know if thats because of the high lift that you can run with rollers? Another question I had was about cam additive for ZDDP whether you need it for rollers like you do for flat tappets and what kind do you guys use for your cams? Thanks guys

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Jonnyj00] #1260933 07/02/12 06:01 PM 07/02/12 06:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 150 South Carolina, United States C carolinacuda member
carolinacuda member C Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 150 South Carolina, United States	Well i will give my two cents. Alot depends on your performance goals. Rollers do have its advantages but its hard to beat a good solid flat. Rollers are alot of extra $$ for a few horses. I used a hughes flat 572/579 for my 10.8 comp 446. Make sure you have good flowing heads or you will not gain much..I got Indy Ez's and a victor Int. topped by a 950 carb. Im happy so far with mine. I got it in a 74cuda with all stock susp and M/T Et's and i ran 7.22 in 1/8th. Thats with 3500 stall and 3.91 gears. Call hughes they will help you decide. I use Havoline racing oil which has zinc in it. Other than an occasional rocker arm adjustment ive had no issues.

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: carolinacuda] #1260934 07/02/12 06:11 PM 07/02/12 06:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,575 The Netherlands BigBlockMopar master
BigBlockMopar master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,575 The Netherlands	You only have to wipe one lobe on the flattappet cam to remind you why you made the mistake of not going with a roller in the first place A roller costs a good deal more, but it also takes away the annoying halfhour break-in period of a fresh engine or cam install. Oil selection becomes a little less critical aswell. You can just start the engine, set timing and carb adjustments and then break in the rings during a couple of firm drives around the block. BigBlockMopar.com

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: carolinacuda] #1260935 07/02/12 06:17 PM 07/02/12 06:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,408 Ambridge, Pa. R rickraw top fuel
rickraw top fuel R Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,408 Ambridge, Pa.	what he said. at sometime u will have to change the bronze dizzy gear. rollers will have to be rebuilt at some point too. wish i went with a flat tappet cam. i'm runnin a 730lift roller on the street with some strip time. i just us delvac 15-40w oil, no additive needed.

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Jonnyj00] #1260936 07/02/12 06:25 PM 07/02/12 06:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,223 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,223 Bend,OR USA	No additives needed on roller lifters, as far as do you need a solid roller cam or what the benifets are , how much power do you want to make? I have one custom ground solid roller cam that is really stupid as far as how high in RPM it will pull hard to It made peak HP on a engine dyno at 5600 RPM, the car goes faster if I shift the motor above 7000 RPM I missed a shift point in the car the last time out( it was dancing around a little on the back tires, the fronts where in the air ) and the playback tach shows I shifted it out of first gear at 8100 RPM, it was still pulling hard I've had a lot of race and street motors with solid flat tappet(lifters) cams, none of them like to pull hard above 6500 RPM Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1260937 07/02/12 06:35 PM 07/02/12 06:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,010 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw... gregsdart I Live Here
gregsdart I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,010 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...	There are street friendly grinds available that don't require race spring pressures and if i am right some that don't need the bronze gear? Call a couple of the cam company s and tell them what you want and you should come up with some solid advice and a setup that will last a lot of miles. You will like the extra power and roller cams have a little more bottom end torque because they have faster opening rates and don't need quite as much total duration for the same power band. 8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Jonnyj00] #1260938 07/02/12 06:37 PM 07/02/12 06:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	I'm pretty happy with the soild roller. It's a Comp cams 588/580. runs drives nice. Pulls hard and has better stret manners than a MP 509. Now the cost is 3x as much, so that is somthing to think about. [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG] Coming soon!!!!

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1260939 07/02/12 06:49 PM 07/02/12 06:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa J Jonnyj00 OP member
Jonnyj00 OP member J Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa	Well this whole question was brought on becuase of the additive... We tried running a solid flat tappet with royal purple full synthetic and took some lobes off the cam . Should have known better. This car runs the 1/8 and we shift at 5500 and runs 7.20 consitantly or should I say ran... Its just a 440 that had a .590 purple shaft. Ran good and consistant had no complaints with performance. We dont really wanna turn that many Rs because we dont wanna spend the money to do so lol. So it sounds to me like unless we wanna turn mor RPM stick with the flat tappet and just keep the cam lube in stock.

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Jonnyj00] #1260940 07/02/12 06:50 PM 07/02/12 06:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa J Jonnyj00 OP member
Jonnyj00 OP member J Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa	BTW street drivablity isnt a concern. Race only car Thanks guys!!

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Jonnyj00] #1260941 07/02/12 06:54 PM 07/02/12 06:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,010 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw... gregsdart I Live Here
gregsdart I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,010 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...	Quote: Well this whole question was brought on becuase of the additive... We tried running a solid flat tappet with royal purple full synthetic and took some lobes off the cam . Should have known better. This car runs the 1/8 and we shift at 5500 and runs 7.20 consitantly or should I say ran... Its just a 440 that had a .590 purple shaft. Ran good and consistant had no complaints with performance. We dont really wanna turn that many Rs because we dont wanna spend the money to do so lol. So it sounds to me like unless we wanna turn mor RPM stick with the flat tappet and just keep the cam lube in stock. Do you check for lifter rotation before you fire the motor? If any of them aren't rotating, put 500 grit sandpaper in the palm of your hand and rotate the base of the lifter in it till you can see that it is scuffed a bit. Test for rotation again. With the right oil, you should be fine. 8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Jonnyj00] #1260942 07/02/12 06:58 PM 07/02/12 06:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Well this whole question was brought on becuase of the additive... We tried running a solid flat tappet with royal purple full synthetic and took some lobes off the cam . Should have known better. This car runs the 1/8 and we shift at 5500 and runs 7.20 consitantly or should I say ran... Its just a 440 that had a .590 purple shaft. Ran good and consistant had no complaints with performance. We dont really wanna turn that many Rs because we dont wanna spend the money to do so lol. So it sounds to me like unless we wanna turn mor RPM stick with the flat tappet and just keep the cam lube in stock. A roller will make more power and if you keep the duration down you dont have to spin it higher and no you dont need additives... if the bottom end can turn higher and you have the flow I would turn it higher... RPMs make HP if your set up for it

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: gregsdart] #1260943 07/02/12 07:01 PM 07/02/12 07:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa J Jonnyj00 OP member
Jonnyj00 OP member J Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 161 SE Iowa	Quote: Quote: Well this whole question was brought on becuase of the additive... We tried running a solid flat tappet with royal purple full synthetic and took some lobes off the cam . Should have known better. This car runs the 1/8 and we shift at 5500 and runs 7.20 consitantly or should I say ran... Its just a 440 that had a .590 purple shaft. Ran good and consistant had no complaints with performance. We dont really wanna turn that many Rs because we dont wanna spend the money to do so lol. So it sounds to me like unless we wanna turn mor RPM stick with the flat tappet and just keep the cam lube in stock. Do you check for lifter rotation before you fire the motor? If any of them aren't rotating, put 500 grit sandpaper in the palm of your hand and rotate the base of the lifter in it till you can see that it is scuffed a bit. Test for rotation again. With the right oil, you should be fine. Are you talkin about for engine break in? If you are thats the most pathetic part about our problem lol is this motor has been together for years we just didnt have any cam addative and decided to try and take a chance with royal purple with out the addative. If your not talking about break-in please elaborate im curious as to what you mean?

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Jonnyj00] #1260944 07/02/12 09:50 PM 07/02/12 09:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,420 F FastOne pro stock
FastOne pro stock F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,420	I'm going to try the new Crane steel oil drive gear with my roller, pn69970-1 Advice is to not use a high volume oil pump with this gear

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Jonnyj00] #1260945 07/02/12 11:07 PM 07/02/12 11:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	IMO, rollers are over priced and over marketed ( Gods gift to performance ). For all out high end race engines, yes - other wise, they are just a bragging crutch. The additional weight you have to deal with offsets other advantages below .650 lift IMO. I have run a flat tappet cam with well over .600 lift for going on 4 years now ( using Royal Purple full synthetic BTW ) with zero problems. The larger .904 lifters used in Mopar motors is a real advantage for running aggressive flat tappet cam profiles also. Fastest 300

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Crizila] #1260946 07/02/12 11:41 PM 07/02/12 11:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	I went with a solid flat tappet in my car. I use the EDM lifters with the small hole in the bottom for oil to the lobe. I checked all my lifters for rotation before I started it. I use Valvoline racing oil and a zinc additive. No problems at all. I did break the cam in on just the outer springs. With a roller I did not want to worry about valve float if it did not have enough spring pressure and I did not want to worry about a lifter breaking with the high spring pressure they use. I drive my 63 on the street alot and felt the flat tappet would be best for me. Ron Last edited by 383man; 07/02/12 11:43 PM.

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: 383man] #1260947 07/03/12 12:32 AM 07/03/12 12:32 AM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 13,200 aZLiViN J J_BODY I Live Here
J_BODY I Live Here J Joined: May 2003 Posts: 13,200 aZLiViN	Ran flat tappet in my RB 498 in the Mirada. Only two sets of valve springs ever and the car was still running 9.90's a couple weeks before I sold it. Same Ultradyne cam for 15+ years. New owner had been running 10.2-.3 at a couple different tracks at higher altitudes. 20-50 off the shelf racing oil for years, and then Shell Rotella since 08. I'm sure rollers have there place, but I sure see alot of people running them in dedicated race cars that didn't come close to the number I was running with my junk. On the flip side we went roller with our W5 small block. After 50 passes we had to disassemble due to water seepage issues and found the bodies on at least 6 of the Comp Cam roller lifter bodies cracked. That was quite a bit of $$$ flushed... Ordered some new lifter from IMM and they lasted 150 passes until the engine expired....and of course hurt a cam lobe so you have to question the integrity of the lifters....so in 200 passes we have one set of junk roller lifters, and one set I probably would question on "re-using". We're in the planning stages for another 9 sec small block, and we'll most likely go with another set of "new" lifters..... but we're stupid like that

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Jonnyj00] #1260948 07/03/12 12:34 AM 07/03/12 12:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 417 reynoldsburg,ohio poppaj mopar
poppaj mopar Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 417 reynoldsburg,ohio	The advantage of a roller cam is you can use the stiffer springs which keeps the valve train under control at higher rpm. Plus roller profiles can be much more aggresive. poppaj AA/NSS 65'Coronet "Whompin Wedge" Pop & Son Performance 557" B-1 power John Holt Chassis

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Jonnyj00] #1260949 07/03/12 12:46 AM 07/03/12 12:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion	Been running an Isky roller for over 7 years now and I`ve changed springs once and had the lifters rebuilt once also and love it. Street lobes and revs like an animal past 7500 rpm`s w/ease......Don`t see myself ever going to a solid again........ 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: Thumperdart] #1260950 07/03/12 01:39 AM 07/03/12 01:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,647 aotearoa rebel master
rebel master Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,647 aotearoa	the first cam i used in my Indy Maxx block was a comp cams solid, 280/284 @ 050 650 lift, ran well but we only got 9.7 @ 137mph best at the end of the season. that was ok as we were running 9.90 so it suited me. then i came into some $$$ so i bought ICH's R1 cam, 272/276 @ 050 660 lift got us into the 9.5's but struggled with hardwear coming loose all the time, eventually we scored one of the lobes so i sent it to a cam man for analylist. he said that cam had harmonics & should be reground. so we did it. came back 272/279@ 050 650 lift. wow big improvement, nothing comes loose & with a little work on the bodys areodynamics we ran a string of 9.4's last season. the flat tappet was waay hotter at 050 but the lesser roller has us running heaps faster. on a race motor, i will only buy a roller from now on. the extra HP is so much cheaper buying a roller cam.

Re: roller vs mechanical flat tappet cam? [Re: BigBlockMopar] #1260951 07/03/12 02:08 AM 07/03/12 02:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,145 Arizona, USA gsmopar super stock
gsmopar super stock Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,145 Arizona, USA	Quote: You only have to wipe one lobe on the flattappet cam to remind you why you made the mistake of not going with a roller in the first place I lost a lifter and wiped out my roller cam. I don't think that this is a good argument for either cam.

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