Valves are 5.400" vs 4.86", don't know how much the pockets are raised but they're fairly shallow, not plunge cut like "normal" Stage VI's. The roof to bowl is definately higher and the short side is a good bit longer, they have a pretty nice sweep/transition from port to bowl on both the long and short sides.

Rocker stands are milled flat, they need custom pedestal blocks to work.

What kind of installed hieght and diameter springs do you think will fit on these, if you use all the tricks, like +.100 retainers ?

It's a shame that the Chapman stuff is sooo costly compared to what else is on the market, because these things on paper would be one of the best BB heads out there at the moment. The only downside is they would probably cost more than a set of B1's, or come close anyway. I wonder why no one has done a program for B1's yet??? Sorry for the hijack Bobby, I'll let you all get back to your regular program
AL...

John, please don't tell me that a set of Chapmans cost more than a set of complete B1 heads? With or without porting??
AL...

A complete set of Chapmans at list price is about 2x what the entire B1 top end sells for.

Koffels sells the original B1 package for $3800 I think. That package includes the heads, valves, rocker arms, manifold, valve covers, etc. Chapmans are what, $6000 for the heads alone?

I know that there is alot of work in CNC stuff, refining the programs , initial development etc, but it would appear that they are
1/ Not getting a good deal on the castings?
2/ Are trying to recoup their money for development awfully quickly?
I don't see most racers shelling out that kind of $$$ for a head like these, perhaps for something like a B1 TS head or similar.
AL...

The best price I've seen Retail is about 3400 a pair BARE. Probably another $1400 in valvetrain and offset rockers. John and I got ours for a lot less than that, enough to where I think it was a pretty decent deal, especially now that I have verification of their flow on "Our" bench!

Sure, they are expensive, But so are Yates heads for the Ford guys. But it's nice to have a set of Big Block Wedge heads that are about as good as just about anything out there.

I keep thinking..285cfm @.400, 370cfm @.650....(In Eric Cartman's voice)....SWEEEEEEEEEET!!

MP list is $2500 per head , bare .

the only place to buy them is MP , chapman just does the work they can't sell them .

valves thru MP were list $7.50 , of course they not available anymore , went obsolete before the heads became available ...

So Mopar is making these things expensive, what a surprise!! You are right about the Yates stuff Bobby, and the W series small block stuff isn't all that cheap either. It would still be good to see a few more of these heads make it onto engines, they look like a good thing. I think when there is more CNC ported stuff on the market , the prices will come down. I recall seeing Indy advertising CNC porting from $1000 which I consider to be reasonable.
AL...

IF...and i know its a really big "if"....but, if these things could be bought as a complete package....like the 440-1 kit, with quality parts in them, assembled by a reputable shop...for around $5000...they would probably sell okay.
people like being able to buy a "package" that has all the components in it, and all the normal BS that can go into trying to match parts from different brands of stuff together, already worked out.

while the ICH stuff is a little on the "rude and crude" side....if you buy one of their head packages....you can usually bolt it all together with a minimum of hassles.

not everyone who is putting a motor together has easy access to a machine shop...so the less reworking the parts need...the happier the customer is....and then word gets around.

while these are really nice heads....the fact that MP kinda leaves you hanging after youve bought them will probably hurt sales...well...that and the price.

Dwayne makes a good point about the packages, I , personally would probably look at a complete top end package if I was going to build another engine, just for the less fuss factor, and it seems to be more cost effective. I would probably look at CNC porting too if I was too do it all over again.
AL...

Koffels offer B1's CNC ported (by another business), they are spendy though. The Chapman head pictures make the CNC porting look real good, I would be surprised if the Indy CNC port jobs are as nice, but I can't say for sure.

Last I knew, the basic B1 package was about $3300 during the winter sale. The smaller (than B1 or 440-1) 285cc port Chapmans should be real good at making power with smaller engines or at lower rpm, so I can see why they might be the best choice for some buildups. I suppose there might be some engines that could effectively use either the B1 or Chapman, but in my opinion they are 2 different animals that fill unique areas.

I'm confused as to why all the bickering over the pricing........ I just looked up the 3 Chapman Stage 6 part #'s on dealerconnect.com to get the straight story.

P4876382 This is a 235 CC runner version, bare. Dealer cost is $1650 each. List price is $2475 each. Zero heads available...

P4876383 This is a 260 CC runner version, bare. Dealer cost is $2000 each. List Price is $2667 18 heads available

P4876386 This is a 285 CC runner version, bare. Dealer cost $2000 each. List price $2667 17 heads available

Now I looked up P4876819, Bare "regular" Stage 6 with chamber machining: $885 Dealer cost, $1325 list price.

Now, I don't give two S**t's about list price.... All I care about is dealer cost, and what I can realistically get the heads for. Now, alot of MP dealers around country like to sell parts at Dealer cost + 10%. If you are "tight" with a dealer parts man, you might get lucky and get 5%, and if you are friends of the owner of the dealership... no markup....

So I feel I should be able to call up virtually any big MP parts dealer tomorrow and pay no more then $2200 a pop for the big runner Chapman 6's.. and If I'm lucky with connections I can pay even less. So I don't want to hear any $6000+ figures for bare Chapman heads anymore. $4400 tops. If you are paying more than Dealer +10% on ANY MP part, SHOP AROUND.

Now I'm not trying to defend MP here, because I'm actually not pleased with them in the least at the moment but, I think perhaps some people need to look at this more logically. MP has been selling their BARE aluminum V8 heads in the $600-$900 range basically for the past I don't know, what 10 years? Whether it be BB or SB. I showed the current stage 6 bare price above.. So you can figure out ABOUT how much extra you are paying for the CNC work... PLUS take into account these are out of a small limited production casting run, that had to be special made... So lets say $850 a pop for the bare 6's dealer cost...So $1150 of that is for the CNC work? And you all find this to be an outrage? How many of you have actually called Chapman Racing Heads in the past and inquired about the pricing of some of their various CNC programs???????? I know I have.... Their stuff is not, and has never been what I'd call "cheap" However.... it is some of the best CNC development out there. What you are paying for is their R&D and tooling costs... Just like when I send them a bare set of W7's to be CNC'd.. I'm not paying $3K+ for just the effort in whittling away my heads, I'm paying for all the R&D that went into the particular program they are using. They have THREE programs for the Stage 6 MP heads... Imagine how many man hours went into developing those 3 programs? I recall MD marvelling one time about how many lines of code that must go into a full CNC porting program for a cylinder head.... I think perhaps alot of you are too "spoiled" by seeing some of the less $ CNC programs available out there today, that may or may not be near as good in port design area as the Chapman stuff on the mopar heads, and see the big volume sellers on the Brand X market that help keep those CNC prices lower. I guess what I'm getting at is that because Chapman is a newcomer to the Big Block Mopar head market, many on this board are in "sticker shock" over them.... Well I've seen a PILE of CNC Chapman W7/8/9 stuff over the past 3-4 years and know what it cost to have done when it was new.... Their programs are not cheap... and $1150 per head is right on par with what they get for their SB CNC head programs... in fact slightly LESS. I have price quotes for CNC'ing a set of new W7's and a set of 9's.... Their stage 6 stuff is not out of line. My odl 7's wer actually just over $6000 a pair for the CNC work with 3 lb. lightening program. I don't think MP is making hardly anything off of these heads like many want to believe.... Many like I said are just in "Chapman sticker shock" not knowing what Chapman's programs have cost all along.... IMO Chapman Racing heads has the best overall CNC development/ R&D program in the country, and you want to play you have to pay... If you want to pay less... go somewhere else for CNC work on particular heads, look into hand porting etc.

So I guess I'm just a little tired of all the price bashing that has gone on with these heads, and wanted to make people more aware, that it is not so much MP setting the price, it's more like they are setting it based on what they are having to pay Chapman Racing Heads for the R&D etc..

Are they worth the $ VS B1's Indy's etc.???? I could care less, they are all big block heads and as everyone knows, I have no interest in them. I'm just making a point that the cost is not as outrageous as many would like to believe. And Like I said earlier, I can't BELIEVE I just defended MP.... I must be out of my mind tonight.

While packages have good selling features, nearly all of the best heads I've ever done started out as bare castings. Head Packages almost always compromise some component (ex: locks, retainers, springs, rockers, etc) for the sake of shaving some cost. By the time you upgrade it's a toss-up to where you might have been better to just build them yourself.

Intake port cross section has a big bearing on where the torque peak is likely to occur for a given displacement, peak flow cfm can give you a pretty good idea of how many rpm the flow curve can carry before fall-off and how much peak power you can make. The trend in most forms of naturally aspirated racing (from what I am exposed to) seems to be going to smaller, faster flowing and more highly efficient ports; I guess that's why I was so interesting in trying to get a set of these. I've always been most fascinated in the Technology of engine building, I guess I was just fortunate to find a pair of these at a price that was worth taking the chance for.

Streetwise; Can we see a pic of the intake port, I would like to compare it to my MW size ported out EDDIE. mike

Here's one

Chamber view

another

I priced these heads out here in Can. $2600 a head in cnd funds so around $3900usd. We get cost+5% at my work.

How would these heads work on a small cube engine? say 400cu.

I can see these heads being good for class racing cause B1 are banned in the slower classes here.