48 Plymouth swap question.
#1234249
05/16/12 01:40 AM
05/16/12 01:40 AM
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ramman16248
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I finally got a 48 Club Coupe project. I am getting most of my parts lined up ahead of time, so i can make a plan and stick to it. Anyhow, My neighbor is scrapping a 76 Dodge Motorhome that has the front clip of a van. It has a nice sounding, no smoke 360. I would assume that it will have a 727 trans in it since it is a motorhome. The tranny was rebuilt 1500 miles ago. He Dropped it off at my garage, ( yes it ran and drove still), and told me to get anything I needed. While lookig at it, I discovered the master cylinder. It mounts on the firewall sideways with the brake lines going toward the motor. Is this something I should get off for the 48, or not? I just thought that it may be an easy one to install for clearance since it set sideways.
I am still up it the air with the rest. Especially the suspension. I have been told to just do the brake converion from Butch's cool stuff. I have also looked into the mustang II swap. Just as I was thinking that was the way to go, Another friend of mine suggested a Dakota Clip or even the whole frame swap. I want to get around 375-400 horse out of the 360 and have a fun street rod. So Discs are a definate. The cost of the mustang II and the Dakota swap seen to be close to the same. The disc swap from Butch's is the cheapest. But, Wil the car handle well with the Disc swap and the old style suspension? A lot of questions, but A lot of directions to go as well. Thanks, Jason
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Re: 48 Plymouth swap question.
[Re: ramman16248]
#1234251
05/16/12 11:23 PM
05/16/12 11:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,559
Freeport IL USA
poorboy
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I Live Here
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Freeport IL USA
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I've been down this road a few times. The original suspension on your 48 Plymouth was very modern at its time. it was well engineered and works well with only a couple modifications. There are several places that sell Disc brake conversions for these cars, including Butches, Fatman, Sacarbird, and Rusty Hope to name a few. My preference is towards www.rustyhope.com. The second place that needs modification is the upper shock mounts, originally The shocks mounted between the upper control arm and the lower control arm. Made for a nice soft cushy ride, but was a bit lame in the performance area. The fix is to relocate the upper shock mount to the frame. Again, there are several places that offer a "kit", or you can make your own. Another thing that has been done is the installation of a rack & pinion steering in place of the original steering box. There are also a couple different methods this has been done, and I believe there are "kit" out there for this too. I have a 48 Plymouth business coupe sitting on a complete Dakota frame and can tell you it is a major project. I have it on the road now, and its a blast to drive, but not something for a beginner. There is a build thread here in the street rod section, look for it. That said, a Dakota clip matches up with the original frame at about the firewall, where the Dakota slips right in like it was designed to do so. As a whole, frame clips are a pita because you have to figure out rad and front sheet metal mounting. When your ready to install your 360, it fits real nice if you off set it about an inch and a half towards the passenger side. Be sure to keep the drive train straight, side to side, everything should still clear, but you may need to modify the passenger side firewall, just a bit, with a bfh to clear the valve cover. You will also want to update the rear axle. The track width of your Plymouth is in the 61" wide area, a wide selection of modern rear ends fit well, like the disc brake Explorers. I think I would pass on the Van master cylinder, (might not be a bad thing to bag and shelf though) I think it will want to occupy the same space as the motor will. I have a Dakota booster and master on my coupe, and have used Dodge truck and Volare masters and boosters before. We built a 47 Plymouth club coupe for my son with a 360, 727, 8 3/4 with 3:55 gears. We did the disc brake conversion with a Volare master and 11" drums on the back. when you did a panic stop, you looked in the rear view to see if the guy behind you could stop, that thing would have out braked anything I had before or since. I don't think we ever got around to the upper shock mount relocation. That car was a lot of fun. Picture is my current 48 business coupe on a Dakota frame.Gene
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Re: 48 Plymouth swap question.
[Re: 65rbdodge]
#1234252
05/17/12 12:12 AM
05/17/12 12:12 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 692
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ramman16248
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Quote:
the Mustang2 and dakota swap are the same $$$???? i got my entire dakota frame and steering colum/rack for $150 i spent maybe another $150-200 in new ball joints/brakes/springs ect.
I was looking into the entire frame/suspension swap. It would entail building a whole new floor. That isn't cheap. The front clip could just be swapped but the Dak. I found would need all of those parts as well.
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Re: 48 Plymouth swap question.
[Re: poorboy]
#1234253
05/17/12 12:17 AM
05/17/12 12:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 692
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ramman16248
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Quote:
I've been down this road a few times.
The original suspension on your 48 Plymouth was very modern at its time. it was well engineered and works well with only a couple modifications.
There are several places that sell Disc brake conversions for these cars, including Butches, Fatman, Sacarbird, and Rusty Hope to name a few. My preference is towards www.rustyhope.com.
The second place that needs modification is the upper shock mounts, originally The shocks mounted between the upper control arm and the lower control arm. Made for a nice soft cushy ride, but was a bit lame in the performance area. The fix is to relocate the upper shock mount to the frame. Again, there are several places that offer a "kit", or you can make your own.
Another thing that has been done is the installation of a rack & pinion steering in place of the original steering box. There are also a couple different methods this has been done, and I believe there are "kit" out there for this too.
I have a 48 Plymouth business coupe sitting on a complete Dakota frame and can tell you it is a major project. I have it on the road now, and its a blast to drive, but not something for a beginner. There is a build thread here in the street rod section, look for it.
That said, a Dakota clip matches up with the original frame at about the firewall, where the Dakota slips right in like it was designed to do so. As a whole, frame clips are a pita because you have to figure out rad and front sheet metal mounting.
When your ready to install your 360, it fits real nice if you off set it about an inch and a half towards the passenger side. Be sure to keep the drive train straight, side to side, everything should still clear, but you may need to modify the passenger side firewall, just a bit, with a bfh to clear the valve cover. You will also want to update the rear axle. The track width of your Plymouth is in the 61" wide area, a wide selection of modern rear ends fit well, like the disc brake Explorers.
I think I would pass on the Van master cylinder, (might not be a bad thing to bag and shelf though) I think it will want to occupy the same space as the motor will. I have a Dakota booster and master on my coupe, and have used Dodge truck and Volare masters and boosters before.
We built a 47 Plymouth club coupe for my son with a 360, 727, 8 3/4 with 3:55 gears. We did the disc brake conversion with a Volare master and 11" drums on the back. when you did a panic stop, you looked in the rear view to see if the guy behind you could stop, that thing would have out braked anything I had before or since. I don't think we ever got around to the upper shock mount relocation. That car was a lot of fun.
Picture is my current 48 business coupe on a Dakota frame.Gene
I have read that about the 48 suspension being modern for the time. My concern there, ( Maybe I am over thinking it), is The handleing of the car. If I put the stout 360 in it, and i have dics brakes to stop it, is the old suspension ( with new parts replaced obviously), going to handle ok under power and cornering. I don't want to road race it, but I am sure it will be played with a little from light to light. I just don't want it to go under hard accelertion and take a dive for the curb or something.
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Re: 48 Plymouth swap question.
[Re: ramman16248]
#1234255
05/17/12 10:33 PM
05/17/12 10:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,559
Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,559
Freeport IL USA
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I have read that about the 48 suspension being modern for the time. My concern there, ( Maybe I am over thinking it), is The handleing of the car. If I put the stout 360 in it, and i have dics brakes to stop it, is the old suspension ( with new parts replaced obviously), going to handle ok under power and cornering. I don't want to road race it, but I am sure it will be played with a little from light to light. I just don't want it to go under hard accelertion and take a dive for the curb or something.
I've seen these car handle just fine with lot more power then I suspect you will get from your 360, think blown Hemi. On top of that, the original flat head 6 weighed about 200 lbs more then your 360 and all its trimmings. Short of a rusted out frame, or bent suspension parts, the main reason these cars were clipped was because of a perceived need for power steering, (even that can be over come). I would have left the original frame under my car if it wouldn't have had rust holes big enough to put your hand through in several places. They really worked well. Gene
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Re: 48 Plymouth swap question.
[Re: poorboy]
#1234256
05/17/12 11:57 PM
05/17/12 11:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 692
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ramman16248
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it looks like I will probably do the disc conversion and Butch's mount kit too. It seems like the best solution for what I want. Now as far as the rear end goes, ( I am open to what rear to use since a few different ones work well. ), but are you leaving the stock rear leaf springs on these cars, or is there a good alternative? Thanks Jason
Last edited by ramman16248; 05/17/12 11:59 PM.
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Re: 48 Plymouth swap question.
[Re: ramman16248]
#1234257
05/20/12 01:58 AM
05/20/12 01:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,757
levittown pa
fstfish66
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,757
levittown pa
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check posies street rods in hummelstown pa,,, he has rear leafs for these cars,re-engineered to lower the car ,and handle the modern weight and ride or a loaded up street rod,,,he calls them super slide springs,, they fit the orignal mounting sizes of your car,,, i have them in my 40 coupe,, also consider a rear end with a sway bar,,,its a big improvement,, i adapted a bar from comp engeering form another body style,,,
1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD)
1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod
2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver
2015 cherokee
2013 R/T classic
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