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Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mopower440] #1232306 05/12/12 11:31 PM 05/12/12 11:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL mark7171 pro stock
mark7171 pro stock Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL	Clockwise. Read my edit. mark it so you can return it. The 3500 stall is why it tolerated driving around with low inital and no vacuum advance. What is your ignition set up? Can you wire in a stock Hei that autozone sells with a vacuum advance pod? If you do not want the trouble contact Don at 4secondsflat.com. he will send you a built HEI that is perfect. Last edited by mark7171; 05/13/12 01:04 AM.

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mark7171] #1232307 05/12/12 11:41 PM 05/12/12 11:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee mopower440 OP master
mopower440 OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee	dont know what the autozone one is you speak of, what i have is the stock electronic ignition setup. has the ecu box mounted on firewall and has the coil on the intake and has the ballast resistor. stock setup. I just dont have the vacuum advance hooked up..dont remember why but it didnt act right or something..there was a reason i just dont remember..like i said, ive gotten out of it for a good while, thats why shes been sitting.. Its always wanted a lot of fuel to start after sitting a week or so, lots of pumps of the gas pedal. But if it sets for 6 months or so, it wont start..

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mopower440] #1232308 05/12/12 11:51 PM 05/12/12 11:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL mark7171 pro stock
mark7171 pro stock Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL	You have the vacuum advance system, but you chose not to hook it up? It is my oppinion of 30 years wrenching that it is necessary for a driving car. Are you playing around with me. Attach the hose and suck on it see if the diaphram leaks. A allen wrench adjusts the vacuum advance . Do it through the tit. If the diaphram is good hook it up to manifold vacuum. With your mechanical curve set, it should be able to adjust close enough if not right on. Last edited by mark7171; 05/12/12 11:52 PM.

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mark7171] #1232309 05/13/12 12:01 AM 05/13/12 12:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee mopower440 OP master
mopower440 OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee	no, not playing..when hooked up it made it act crazy i just cant remember what it was.. i know when the engine was completely stock and it was hooked up it made the car buck under a light cruise..I didnt think the higher compression and bigger cam liked it hooked up.

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mopower440] #1232310 05/13/12 12:14 AM 05/13/12 12:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL mark7171 pro stock
mark7171 pro stock Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL	A car on a dirt track for racing, like your picture is one thing. This sounds like a driven nice day car, which would mean a vacuum advance system is needed a the build levelyour talking. However you have worked around it for so long. Bucking no. It will increase advance from manifold vacuum and smooth out part throttle driving. Then fall away to the mechanical curve for WOT sprints. there could be more to your problem but that is a red light for me.

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mopower440] #1232311 05/13/12 12:20 AM 05/13/12 12:20 AM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 2,295 dark side of the moon D Dougsmopars top fuel
Dougsmopars top fuel D Joined: May 2005 Posts: 2,295 dark side of the moon	I have the same cam. Holley Street dominator with 750 Quick fuel carb. MP dizzy with chrome box. I have the initial set at 20 degrees with a total of 38 all in by 2000. Cold one pump of gas pedal and it fires. If you have an MP distributor set your initial as much as it will take with out a hard hot start. The mechanical advance is adjustable to limit total advance and summit sells a nice little kit with degree paddels to set the total. In my case the motor loves 20 initial so with 20 initial i needed to limit mechanicial to 18 degrees. Set the 18 paddel in slot and adjusted it. Car starts right up cold or hot and no ping at wide open throttle.Do not use manifold vacunm for advance. Use the ported vac like it was designed with.

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: Dougsmopars] #1232312 05/13/12 12:30 AM 05/13/12 12:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL mark7171 pro stock
mark7171 pro stock Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL	Quote: I have the same cam. Holley Street dominator with 750 Quick fuel carb. MP dizzy with chrome box. I have the initial set at 20 degrees with a total of 38 all in by 2000. Cold one pump of gas pedal and it fires. If you have an MP distributor set your initial as much as it will take with out a hard hot start. The mechanical advance is adjustable to limit total advance and summit sells a nice little kit with degree paddels to set the total. In my case the motor loves 20 initial so with 20 initial i needed to limit mechanicial to 18 degrees. Set the 18 paddel in slot and adjusted it. Car starts right up cold or hot and no ping at wide open throttle.Do not use manifold vacunm for advance. Use the ported vac like it was designed with. Sure it starts hot at 20 intial , What starter do you have, Battery CCA? There is something you arent saying. My 440 will stop cranking hot around 18. After a 45 minute ride it needs a 10 degree retard to crank. Best setting with my manual 4speed is 18+18 for 36 total mechanical and 12 vacuum advance in stock MP HEI distributor with MSD 6al box and msd retard. 600 CCA diehard battery. Yeah all in by 2000. Why bother. Have a vacuum advance at least. Good luck threw you some pearls do not quit. Last edited by mark7171; 05/13/12 01:11 AM.

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mark7171] #1232313 05/13/12 02:45 AM 05/13/12 02:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 742 Oak Harbor, WA W Wicked49670dart super stock
Wicked49670dart super stock W Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 742 Oak Harbor, WA	What type of coil do you have? Check the voltage at the pos and neg side of the coil with key on and while cranking and report back! What color ECU box do you have? Let me know Matt... 70 Dart 3400 496 New Best 6.15@110.37 660ft, 9.76@135 with a 1.34 60ft

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: Wicked49670dart] #1232314 05/13/12 10:02 AM 05/13/12 10:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL mark7171 pro stock
mark7171 pro stock Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL	There is alot here, but we said that the ignition is solid. Meaning corretly wired and fully functioning. Improper coil voltage would be a problem though. Based on information the tune sounded like the problem. Use a scan tool that reads timing in degrees on any new performance vehicle. At idle the timing is around 40.

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: Wicked49670dart] #1232315 05/13/12 12:36 PM 05/13/12 12:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee mopower440 OP master
mopower440 OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee	in 'run' i have 4.5 volts at the coil, if i bypass the ballast and run a jumper i have 7 volts at the coil, at the ballast i have 10 volts, and the battery has 12.5 volts..i dont know if thats not enough juice at the coil but thats the way its always been and runs just fine, just a b..ch to start after it sets for a while..I tried using 2 jumper wires straight from pos and neg at the coil to the pos and neg at the battery and cranked it, it wont fire the plugs like this for some reason.. unhooked the jumpers and tried cranking it again normally and they fire..

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mopower440] #1232316 05/13/12 12:39 PM 05/13/12 12:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL mark7171 pro stock
mark7171 pro stock Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL	Shoot for 9 at the coil with that ignition. You have a problem. Is the resistor ballast shot?

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mopower440] #1232317 05/13/12 12:57 PM 05/13/12 12:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio fourgearsavoy I Live Here
fourgearsavoy I Live Here Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio	If your timing is correct and the ignition is up to par the plugs will clean themselves I never had any good Champion plugs so I would start with Denso,NGK, or Accell plugs.Some swear by Autolites I like Denso Iridium plugs,they never foul with MSD and Firecore ignition components and they don't wear out. I have also seen this type of problem with the cam timing off the mark If you have anyone local to you with a 440 try the ignition system off their car and see if there is and difference,or you could also just try another carb Sometimes you have to know what it isn't Gus 7204461-savoyburnout.jpg (69 downloads) 64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mopower440] #1232318 05/13/12 01:01 PM 05/13/12 01:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 742 Oak Harbor, WA W Wicked49670dart super stock
Wicked49670dart super stock W Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 742 Oak Harbor, WA	What type of coil and ecu box do you have? Take a test light ground the lead to a good ground, probe the other lead to the neg side of the coil and crank the engine and see if the test flickers with wire connected orginally, the volts are too low 4.5/7. Last edited by Wicked49670dart; 05/13/12 01:07 PM. 70 Dart 3400 496 New Best 6.15@110.37 660ft, 9.76@135 with a 1.34 60ft

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: Wicked49670dart] #1232319 05/13/12 02:28 PM 05/13/12 02:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL mark7171 pro stock
mark7171 pro stock Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,261 ILL	plug brand is supersition.

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: Wicked49670dart] #1232320 05/13/12 02:30 PM 05/13/12 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,251 Slidell, LA Ronnman pro stock
Ronnman pro stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,251 Slidell, LA	Quote: I tried using 2 jumper wires straight from pos and neg at the coil to the pos and neg at the battery and cranked it, it wont fire the plugs like this for some reason. If you ran the two jumpers as stated above, you prevented the breaking of the circuit on the negative post of the coil. Hence, no break, no spark! Retry the jumper pos battery post to pos terminal of coil. Negative battery post to the coil holding bracket or one of the bolts, not the NEGATIVE COIL TERMINAL. 4.5 volts at the coil is low. Give it another try with the setup I mentioned. Ron

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mark7171] #1232321 05/13/12 04:23 PM 05/13/12 04:23 PM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 2,295 dark side of the moon D Dougsmopars top fuel
Dougsmopars top fuel D Joined: May 2005 Posts: 2,295 dark side of the moon	Stock mopar starter. 600 cranking amp battery. Cam likes 20 degrees initial timing. I'd never run manifold vacunm. The ignition system was designed for ported vac to advance. For 35 years i've allways given as much initial as it would take with out a hard hot start. Most people will stick with 38 or 39 total. Car starts great and runs super. Not messing with what allways worked for me. Initial will change depending on cam used. My GTX runs the big Luniti Voodoo cam 513/533 and likes 21 initial 38 total. A stock cam won't like that much initial timing.

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: Ronnman] #1232322 05/13/12 04:52 PM 05/13/12 04:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee mopower440 OP master
mopower440 OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee	Quote: Quote: I tried using 2 jumper wires straight from pos and neg at the coil to the pos and neg at the battery and cranked it, it wont fire the plugs like this for some reason. If you ran the two jumpers as stated above, you prevented the breaking of the circuit on the negative post of the coil. Hence, no break, no spark! Retry the jumper pos battery post to pos terminal of coil. Negative battery post to the coil holding bracket or one of the bolts, not the NEGATIVE COIL TERMINAL. 4.5 volts at the coil is low. Give it another try with the setup I mentioned. Ron ok, when i jumper the + from the coil to the + on the battery can i leave the original wire thats hooked to the + side of the coil hooked up? also, i have a stock coil, parts house ECU and NGK plugs, i also have another chrome ecu i tried, still nothing

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mopower440] #1232323 05/13/12 05:36 PM 05/13/12 05:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,251 Slidell, LA Ronnman pro stock
Ronnman pro stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,251 Slidell, LA	I would disconnect the existing wire to the coil positive and wrap it in tape to prevent grounding out. Then jump to battery positive and try to start. Ron

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: Ronnman] #1232324 05/13/12 06:40 PM 05/13/12 06:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee mopower440 OP master
mopower440 OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,863 middle Tennessee	weird!!! So i put a jumper from pos battery to pos on coil, then a jumper from neg battery to coil bracket bolt, pulled number one plug wire off and stuck a spare plug in it and layed it on the block, turned key to run and jumped the 2 lugs on the fenderwell relay to turn it over, yes its sparking, so reconected number one plug wire and crank and crank, still nothing, wont even try to hit..so for the heck of it, i dug a spare coil off the shelf and hooked it up, again disconnected number one wire and stuck spare plug in to verify spark and jumped the lugs on the fenderwell, yup, it sparked but this time the engine tried to fire up!! Oh boy, i hooked number one plug wire back up and jumped in the car and cranked and it hit again, jumped out and gave it a shot of carb cleaner and it started and died, gave her another shot of carb cleaner and cranked and she started up and running good! Dont really understand why, both coils seemed to fire the plug the same but the other one wouldnt start the car..but shes running awesome now! There is 5.8 volts at the coil with the car idling..

Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!! [Re: mopower440] #1232325 05/13/12 07:21 PM 05/13/12 07:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,251 Slidell, LA Ronnman pro stock
Ronnman pro stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,251 Slidell, LA	Good deal! Glad you got it worked out. Ron

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