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ballance #1228868 05/07/12 01:57 PM 05/07/12 01:57 PM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 69 Fairhope, Alabama B BeeSuper OP member
BeeSuper OP member B Joined: May 2012 Posts: 69 Fairhope, Alabama	Which is better for a street motor and why, internal or external balance? I have 440 that I purchased and there is an obvious vibration, I am just going to start over as I do not know the engine / car history. 4-speed car, vibrates in gear, out of gear, clutch in , clutch out, with or w/o accessory belts, gets worse with RPM. Any help, Thanks in advance.

Re: ballance [Re: BeeSuper] #1228869 05/07/12 03:39 PM 05/07/12 03:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	It really doesnt matter... if its a internally balanced engine now stay with that but if its external stay with that unless you feel like spending extra money on heavy metal... it all comes out to the same in the end....... JMO.... but being a 4 speed I would pull the trans and fire it up to check if its still vibrating

Re: ballance [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1228870 05/07/12 05:37 PM 05/07/12 05:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,894 Florida Locomotion master
Locomotion master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,894 Florida	I either heard or read that an internally balanced crank is better for longevity, however small, because eliminating the excess weight on the ends tends to reduce crank flex. I'm no engineer, but it seems to make sense.

Re: ballance [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1228871 05/07/12 05:43 PM 05/07/12 05:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 976 ontario canada mac56 super stock
mac56 super stock Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 976 ontario canada	Quote: It really doesnt matter... if its a internally balanced engine now stay with that but if its external stay with that unless you feel like spending extra money on heavy metal... it all comes out to the same in the end....... JMO.... but being a 4 speed I would pull the trans and fire it up to check if its still vibrating I like Mikes idea first. I had a 4 speed car that had a bad vibration and it was the pilot bushing.

Re: ballance [Re: Locomotion] #1228872 05/07/12 06:01 PM 05/07/12 06:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: I either heard or read that an internally balanced crank is better for longevity, however small, because eliminating the excess weight on the ends tends to reduce crank flex. I'm no engineer, but it seems to make sense. I have heard that also but dont know for fact... but being this is a street engine I dont think that would even come into play

Re: ballance [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1228873 05/08/12 05:29 PM 05/08/12 05:29 PM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 69 Fairhope, Alabama B BeeSuper OP member
BeeSuper OP member B Joined: May 2012 Posts: 69 Fairhope, Alabama	Am looking at stroker kit from mancini and they give an option of either internal or external. Internal cost $150 more. Is it worth the extra cash? Thanks for the help, as you can tell I am pretty clueless. I will catch on eventually.

Re: ballance [Re: BeeSuper] #1228874 05/08/12 05:41 PM 05/08/12 05:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	If you're going to buy the kit, install it and never change anything, put the $150 toward something more important. If you want to switch converters or flywheels or harmonic dampers later, spend the extra money. Sure, the internally balanced engine may last a little longer at 6000 rpm, but more than a million ford v-8s are running around with about three times the external balance and they seem to do OK. IIRC the 5.0 has 50 oz-inch of external balance, the 440 around 14. R.

Re: ballance [Re: BeeSuper] #1228875 05/08/12 06:19 PM 05/08/12 06:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 13,377 Marion, South Carolina [><] an8sec70cuda I Live Here
an8sec70cuda I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 13,377 Marion, South Carolina [><]	Go internal balance! Much better selection of flywheels for internal balanced applications, not to mention balancers too. I'm sure someone makes them, but finding an external balanced flywheel is a pain. Then your machinist will have to have the flywheel when they balance the assembly. If they have to modify it for weight, you'll have to have it duplicated if you ever need to replace the flywheel later on. It's well worth the money to me. CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax

Re: ballance [Re: BeeSuper] #1228876 05/08/12 07:27 PM 05/08/12 07:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,013 Finally a HUSKER again Moparnut426 I Live Here
Moparnut426 I Live Here Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,013 Finally a HUSKER again	Its your engine man, If it was me Id go internally, just because of parts, If you think you should go internal, but want to save a few hundred bucks, then go with your gut. Trust me, I second guessed something on one of my engines, and I was worried every time I hit the loud pedal. If in doubt over build it LOL Kasey

Re: ballance [Re: BeeSuper] #1228877 05/08/12 07:43 PM 05/08/12 07:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida P Performance Only top fuel
Performance Only top fuel P Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida	Quote: Am looking at stroker kit from mancini and they give an option of either internal or external. Internal cost $150 more. Is it worth the extra cash? Thanks for the help, as you can tell I am pretty clueless. I will catch on eventually. i don't see any reason a 440 stroker kit would need to be externally balanced. we sell a lot of stroker kits and i've yet to externally balance one or charge more for internal balancing. which part # kit are you looking at? machine shop owner and engine builder

Re: ballance [Re: Performance Only] #1228878 05/09/12 10:55 AM 05/09/12 10:55 AM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 69 Fairhope, Alabama B BeeSuper OP member
BeeSuper OP member B Joined: May 2012 Posts: 69 Fairhope, Alabama	page 4 Mancini racing catalog, "Big and Small Block Stroker Rotating Assemblies", the fine print gives balance options. They also list a 440-493 kit balanced assembly for $2095 but do not tell if internal or external. I tried to call them but the go to guy was not available and did not return my call. I want to do business with a large dealer like Mancini because I need some reassurance of support. If I dump a pile of money on this thing and I can't make it go then the boss , (wife) will be loaded for bear any time I mention the word car. Thanks to all for the help. I was a parts changer at a Toyota dealership, that I can do, but these BB Mopars are all new to me, but I love em.

Re: ballance [Re: an8sec70cuda] #1228879 05/09/12 10:59 AM 05/09/12 10:59 AM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 69 Fairhope, Alabama B BeeSuper OP member
BeeSuper OP member B Joined: May 2012 Posts: 69 Fairhope, Alabama	Great input, Thank You.

Re: ballance [Re: Moparnut426] #1228880 05/09/12 11:09 AM 05/09/12 11:09 AM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 69 Fairhope, Alabama B BeeSuper OP member
BeeSuper OP member B Joined: May 2012 Posts: 69 Fairhope, Alabama	I agree. I bought this car as is and the engine vibrated. It felt much like a bent drive shaft or bad u-joint but I have eliminated all of that and so further investigation revealed bad news. Removal of valve covers showed worn rockers. One cylinder was 80 psi down from others which were 205 on compression check. Leak down showed exhaust valve not sealing. Pulled intake to find a variety of push rods, some new, some rusty, some with an external spiral pattern. Pulled heads to reveal double exhaust gaskets on one manifold and almost all of the head bolts were new. The valves were of a variety also. Some had tulip top side and some were flat, some new, some looked well used. I'm starting over.

Re: ballance [Re: BeeSuper] #1228881 05/09/12 11:39 AM 05/09/12 11:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,013 Finally a HUSKER again Moparnut426 I Live Here
Moparnut426 I Live Here Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,013 Finally a HUSKER again	Quote: I agree. I bought this car as is and the engine vibrated. It felt much like a bent drive shaft or bad u-joint but I have eliminated all of that and so further investigation revealed bad news. Removal of valve covers showed worn rockers. One cylinder was 80 psi down from others which were 205 on compression check. Leak down showed exhaust valve not sealing. Pulled intake to find a variety of push rods, some new, some rusty, some with an external spiral pattern. Pulled heads to reveal double exhaust gaskets on one manifold and almost all of the head bolts were new. The valves were of a variety also. Some had tulip top side and some were flat, some new, some looked well used. I'm starting over. Well the good news is now ya know what ya got!! Sucks opening a can of worms though. I have been there. I had a customer bring me a 55 Crown Vic. Had a 292 in it that he just spent 5k on and it was suposed to be rebuilt. Well needless to say with only 70lbs of compression, and one of the worst valve jobs, and almost zero cross hatch in the cylinders it took another 6k to fix it and make it correct. After I got done with it, it will outrun his 55 T bird, and the ol boy was smileing ear to ear even after writing me the check.

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