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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: 1BADDUSTER]
#1224977
04/30/12 07:42 PM
04/30/12 07:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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Just me, but, I would not buy a stroker in kit form if I were going to spray. For one you are wanting to make 700HP total. It can be done but, you can't make any boo boos or your block will go crunch clunk.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: rickraw]
#1224981
05/01/12 07:01 PM
05/01/12 07:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
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DONT THINK ABOUT IT or talk about it just spray it. dont use good part in a stock block. that way when it breaks you are not  MAY THE SPRAY BE WITH YOU MY FRIEND
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: rickraw]
#1224982
05/01/12 08:18 PM
05/01/12 08:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 252
St.Louis, Mo.
mokid
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 252
St.Louis, Mo.
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Quote:
call ryan j.
Just call anyone else, Or just ask the homo phobic
Leon. Maybe he can deal on some parts.
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: rickraw]
#1224984
05/01/12 11:40 PM
05/01/12 11:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Mokid does not like Ryan or Leon for some reason.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: 1BADDUSTER]
#1224985
05/02/12 12:35 AM
05/02/12 12:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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One good option you might want to look at is dealing with your machinist on the parts. Often he can get a better deal than kit suppliers and you have more options when he is putting it together ( the parts that is ) for you. I am putting together 700 HP 408 blower motor using a stock 360 block. The block sonic tested good. half filled, Milodon steele 4 blt caps, Scatt forged crank, Eagle forged H beams, Icon blower pistons. I got a better $ deal from my machinist, than a kit supplier using basically the same parts. Another plus is that your machinist has more of an investment in making sure the parts are matched correctly so it will live.
Fastest 300
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: 1BADDUSTER]
#1224989
05/02/12 09:40 PM
05/02/12 09:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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You usually get the same HP with either stroke and the bigger the stroke the lower the rpm it will happen. I like that you can make the same power at more reasonable rpm levels. Just my  Keith
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#1224990
05/02/12 09:58 PM
05/02/12 09:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
domingo
EL Master
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EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
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Quote:
You usually get the same HP with either stroke and the bigger the stroke the lower the rpm it will happen.
I like that you can make the same power at more reasonable rpm levels. Just my
Keith
but also higher piston speed.
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: domingo]
#1224992
05/02/12 10:03 PM
05/02/12 10:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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Quote:
Quote:
You usually get the same HP with either stroke and the bigger the stroke the lower the rpm it will happen.
I like that you can make the same power at more reasonable rpm levels. Just my
Keith
but also higher piston speed.
Still not as hard on parts as a real high rpm stock stroke engine would be,the valvetrain is more stable due to less rpm. Biggest killer of engine in my opinion.
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: domingo]
#1224993
05/02/12 10:17 PM
05/02/12 10:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 458
Michigan
BPE
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 458
Michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
You usually get the same HP with either stroke and the bigger the stroke the lower the rpm it will happen.
I like that you can make the same power at more reasonable rpm levels. Just my
Keith
but also higher piston speed.
You're right but think about it like this.. Let's say a 4" stroke makes peak power at 6500 rpm that's 72.2 ft. per sec. Now put a 4.250" stroke in it ans say it makes peak power at 6200 rpm, that's 73.2 ft. per sec.  Not much difference huh. Will also have more torque to get the car moving. Less convertor and gear needed.
Rod
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: 1BADDUSTER]
#1224999
05/03/12 01:05 AM
05/03/12 01:05 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
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Longer stroke is going to side load the pistons more. This will create additional friction, more windage in the crankcase, etc. For your uses, I think I would go with a 4" stroke and some ported Indy oval port heads. When I worked at a machine shop last, I built a 408 using a stock magnum block, ARP main studs, a hydraulic roller cam of specs I cannot recall. Ported Indy oval ports that flowed 327 cfm at .650". That little engine made 590 hp. If it had a solid lifter cam in it it would have exceeded 600 easily. The hydraulics wouldn't support the rpm though. And the magnum blocks need a tall lifter to clear the block. Regardless of what you choose, I think you'll be happy with either. I just think the shorter stroke will last you longer.
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: 1BADDUSTER]
#1225000
05/03/12 01:07 AM
05/03/12 01:07 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
for example say two equal engines. same heads, cam bore...etc only thing changes is the stroke. how would both engines stack up in the 1/4???
Depends on the car. Heavy car, the added inches will likely help. Light car, the added inches might run out of air before the end of the track. Too many variables. Additional stroke will make for a more "fun" car. Might not be quicker at the track though.
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: Crizila]
#1225001
05/03/12 01:11 AM
05/03/12 01:11 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
One good option you might want to look at is dealing with your machinist on the parts. Often he can get a better deal than kit suppliers and you have more options when he is putting it together ( the parts that is ) for you. I am putting together 700 HP 408 blower motor using a stock 360 block. The block sonic tested good. half filled, Milodon steele 4 blt caps, Scatt forged crank, Eagle forged H beams, Icon blower pistons. I got a better $ deal from my machinist, than a kit supplier using basically the same parts. Another plus is that your machinist has more of an investment in making sure the parts are matched correctly so it will live.
You sure that's a forged crank? Looks like the Scat 9000 crank to me. Been wrong before though.
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#1225002
05/03/12 10:41 AM
05/03/12 10:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
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How heavy is the car/truck? The heavier the more stroke I would use. Read all of the above responses--the answers are there. Big stroke = not enough cylinder head in most cases (unless you want a low rpm - well below 6000 rpm, torque monster). I wouldn't be mixing a low rpm torque build with n20 but hey--It's up to you. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor
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2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock
2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: BPE]
#1225003
05/03/12 11:36 AM
05/03/12 11:36 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You usually get the same HP with either stroke and the bigger the stroke the lower the rpm it will happen.
I like that you can make the same power at more reasonable rpm levels. Just my
Keith
but also higher piston speed.
You're right but think about it like this.. Let's say a 4" stroke makes peak power at 6500 rpm that's 72.2 ft. per min. Now put a 4.250" stroke in it ans say it makes peak power at 6200 rpm, that's 73.2 ft. per min. Not much difference huh. Will also have more torque to get the car moving. Less convertor and gear needed.
Rod
Very true MORE so in a 360 Main 
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: MattW]
#1225004
05/03/12 11:55 AM
05/03/12 11:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
A57_RT
Parts Problem
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Parts Problem
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
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For some reason people stay away from the plenum volume topic like its the devil and many point to the heads vs the intake setup. Ive done many tests, changes with the indy mod man and with a hair over 2.5 inches worth of added space above the plenum almost makes it as easy to drive as an oem intake until WOT. But I do feel most the std. al. heads are done in the 420 inch area. My 410 is much more efficient then my 452 small block. Still using early 360 blocks and the old DC X blocks the basic 422 with the std intake setup many use like 7200. The mod man is still pulling hard at 7200 with 20% less air then most due to my altitude. Slap on a mailbox sized plenum and work out a good carb sig. and many would see what the strokers really like. Many talk about keeping the rpm low due to the side loading, yes a few blocks may split, but ive seen 10x more actual pics of broken eagle cranks then split blocks. Actually id like to see the huge amount of split blocks posted as I see just as many stoke stroke 360 with cracked cylinder walls. Does anyone have split block pics of there own to post and the combo used with the cause determined to be directly from the side loading. Ive inspected/magged my 410 3 times, one time each year for the past 3 and still run the same calico coated bearings as I started with and the coated skirts still retain there coatings equally around the piston...so I wonder how much is hype and how much is just not making power at the higher rpms? We see alot of holed bb pics/motors but it seems not so many small blocks
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: A57_RT ]
#1225005
05/03/12 01:06 PM
05/03/12 01:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Interesting, the only block I personally saw split in half was a built up rev happy 273 stock stroke .040 over, split it self right up the mains to the cam. No I did not take pics. I also blew a couple cylinder walls out of a 318 but they were way thinner than the guys that sonic tested it told me they were  As for cubic inches and "not enough head" that is only if you think you have to turn it a bunch of RPM and wear out valve springs. Why build a 340 that makes peak power at 8000 when you can build the same motor with a 4.25 crank and make the same power at 6200 ? It is a well documented fact that an 8000 rpm valve train costs a whole lot more than a 6200 valve train. Piston scuffing is gonna be just as bad on an 8000 rpm 340 as a 6200 rpm 4.25 stroker. As for too much TQ for a light car that is just plain BS, just gear it higher and you get the same TQ at the rear wheels. That is all a car really cares about, TQ at the wheels. Think about it... If you build a high RPM motor you gear it really low to convert the HP into TQ and buy lots of valve springs  Plenum volume is a whole different subject, more carb generally means you need less plenum, more plenum covers for too small of carbs.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 408 vs 426 small blocks
[Re: Grizzly]
#1225007
05/03/12 03:40 PM
05/03/12 03:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
A57_RT
Parts Problem
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Parts Problem
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
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Lots of good input, a million and one ways to bake a cake. I like the launch on tq, run it out on hp (rpm) line of thought.  I keep track of all my runs and also use an hour meter for total time running. If you would look at the chevy forums, they run hard with there big plenum manifolds. Even BB mopar strokers love more plenum volume, my carbs ar right at a real world 980-1000 cfm in 4bbl terms that should feed a 410 Id like to find some of the older "sleeved" ford units. I look at the big plenum as a simple depot of fuel and air ready on demand, just like a dam opening a floodgate. Any just a different perspective, I think BGR has had good luck with the mod man in one form or another, I think dual quads....might be wrong. All I know is without many options other then the oem six pack which is a good intake the mod man fills a void for multi carb builds.
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