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426 Hemi issue...timing? #1216473 04/15/12 08:54 PM 04/15/12 08:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA Slipknot440 OP master
Slipknot440 OP master Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA	So I finally got the car this weekend and it drives around fine with new EZ EFI, after 6 months of messing around with wiring and other things. Anyways, the car is a turd out of the hole (727, 3.91 gears) it won't spin the tires and feels like its about to die from a dead stop to smashing the pedal. Now if I'm just pulling out of the street slowly in first gear and hammer the pedal down (at about 2500 rpms) she runs perfect and 100 mph is a quick 1st to second shift away. Any idea as to why I can't come out of the hole but at 2500 rpm the car comes to life. I think we set total timing to 33 before winter hit. I am running a stock mopar electronic ignition and stock coil. Converter is a 2800-3000.

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: Slipknot440] #1216474 04/15/12 08:57 PM 04/15/12 08:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,039 ALBERTA CANADA C CUDA8U super stock
CUDA8U super stock C Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,039 ALBERTA CANADA	try advancing timing 2-3 degrees

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: CUDA8U] #1216475 04/15/12 09:30 PM 04/15/12 09:30 PM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 598 NC, USA D davenc mopar
davenc mopar D Joined: May 2005 Posts: 598 NC, USA	My guess is that the AFR is going way lean on the WOT at low RPM. At 2500 you have some airflow going thru the carbs which is helping the main fuel circuit activate sooner, although I would guess it still may a bit lean on the WOT hit at 2500. Do you have a wideband AFR meter on the car?

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: davenc] #1216476 04/15/12 09:35 PM 04/15/12 09:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA Slipknot440 OP master
Slipknot440 OP master Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA	it's on efi now, so the AFR is monitored by the computer. I may need my copilot (wife to keep an eye on it so I can ride it hard and tell me my numbers so I don't have to crash.

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: Slipknot440] #1216477 04/15/12 09:45 PM 04/15/12 09:45 PM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 598 NC, USA D davenc mopar
davenc mopar D Joined: May 2005 Posts: 598 NC, USA	Does the EFI system have adjustments for the virtual "accelerator pump"? Is the AFR map adjustable? It is a good idea to have some ride shotgun and watch the AFR. If the motor is completely flat, my guess is it goes either dead lean or dead rich, since it sounds like it runs OK otherwise.

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: davenc] #1216478 04/15/12 10:35 PM 04/15/12 10:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA Slipknot440 OP master
Slipknot440 OP master Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA	i believe there is a setting that says "accel fuel pump"

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: Slipknot440] #1216479 04/15/12 10:52 PM 04/15/12 10:52 PM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 12,419 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY Dragula I Live Here
Dragula I Live Here Joined: May 2004 Posts: 12,419 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY	Add squirter shot to it under the advanced menu....Put it at 5.. '70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9) '66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage '71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: Dragula] #1216480 04/20/12 09:57 PM 04/20/12 09:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA Slipknot440 OP master
Slipknot440 OP master Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA	advanced the timing 2-3 degrees, ran worse. Acceled the fuel 5, nothing, then 7 and its only noticeable over 2500 rpms. Still no low end anything. It is a bone stock mopar distributor and stock coil, maybe something to look at?

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: Slipknot440] #1216481 04/20/12 11:49 PM 04/20/12 11:49 PM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 598 NC, USA D davenc mopar
davenc mopar D Joined: May 2005 Posts: 598 NC, USA	Did you have an opportunity to have someone ride shotgun and watch the AFR during WOT at low RPM?

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: Slipknot440] #1216482 04/21/12 12:58 AM 04/21/12 12:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	What is your timing? Initial, total and what rpm is it in by? Even an auto-tuning efi system can't mask a poorly tuned distributor.

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1216483 04/21/12 08:53 AM 04/21/12 08:53 AM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA Slipknot440 OP master
Slipknot440 OP master Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA	Afr at wot is 12.3, cruise is like 13.8. Total timing is 34. I figured the stock distibutor may be holding me back. Side note after I scrapped the auto zone gold battery for an interstate megatron the car runs a 1000% better for just cruising purposes.

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: Slipknot440] #1216484 04/21/12 11:05 AM 04/21/12 11:05 AM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 598 NC, USA D davenc mopar
davenc mopar D Joined: May 2005 Posts: 598 NC, USA	Those AFR numbers are in the general ballpark (once everything is working better some effort tweaking them could be beneficial). What I was trying to ask specifically was what the AFR does when you initially go to WOT from low RPM (ie in that first second). Does your AFR react quickly (ie can you see it swing a bunch when first making large throttle movements?)? If so, you may be able to see what the AFR is doing when the motor goes flat. I assume that once it wakes up, the AFR is close to the WOT number you mentioned above.

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: davenc] #1216485 04/21/12 02:02 PM 04/21/12 02:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA Slipknot440 OP master
Slipknot440 OP master Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA	i'll have the wife take a look at the AFR when we go out again (which won't be anytime soon since it's supposed to rain for 5 days). When just slowly cruising in first gear at about 2000 rpm then hammering it WOT reading is about 12.1-12.3. From a dead stop she said she thought it went to 10.5 but wasn't certain, because it stuttering and sputtering up a storm until 2000+rpms kicked in. Shift from 1st to 2nd the AFR moves quickly back to 12.3, I'll have my navigator do a better job when we go out in the daylight.

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: Slipknot440] #1216486 04/21/12 02:52 PM 04/21/12 02:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,317 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,317 Bend,OR USA	Try leaning the AFR down to 12.8 to 13.3 at WOT and lean the part throttle cruise to 14.2 or leaner A better ignition will probally help also Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1216487 04/21/12 05:30 PM 04/21/12 05:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 North Dakota 6PakBee I Live Here
6PakBee I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 North Dakota	When you go to WOT, does the engine backfire through the intake? "We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1216488 04/21/12 06:53 PM 04/21/12 06:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	Quote: What is your timing? Initial, total and what rpm is it in by? Even an auto-tuning efi system can't mask a poorly tuned distributor.

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1216489 04/21/12 07:04 PM 04/21/12 07:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA Slipknot440 OP master
Slipknot440 OP master Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA	i honestly can't remember my initial timing numbers. No backfiring just a lull, followed by what feels like an engine trying to accelerate (roughly) then a lot of speed. I hopeful get a break in the rain so I can play with it later this week before I start consider saving for some distributor work

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: Slipknot440] #1216490 04/21/12 10:38 PM 04/21/12 10:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 North Dakota 6PakBee I Live Here
6PakBee I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 North Dakota	Okay, if it's not backfiring then it's not too lean. I'm going to stick my neck out and say you have a marginal ignition system. "We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: Slipknot440] #1216491 04/21/12 10:40 PM 04/21/12 10:40 PM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 12,419 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY Dragula I Live Here
Dragula I Live Here Joined: May 2004 Posts: 12,419 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY	Quote: i honestly can't remember my initial timing numbers. No backfiring just a lull, followed by what feels like an engine trying to accelerate (roughly) then a lot of speed. I hopeful get a break in the rain so I can play with it later this week before I start consider saving for some distributor work Have you driven it and various rpms to let the ECU learn the fuel curve yet? With mine, it took about an hour of driving on country roads to hit most of the rpms...I have 4.56 gears so it was pretty easy to cruise at higher rpms...By the time I was done with that drive almost rpm I drove it at showed a correction factor of 5% or less. '70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9) '66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage '71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk

Re: 426 Hemi issue...timing? [Re: Slipknot440] #1216492 04/22/12 02:40 AM 04/22/12 02:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	Quote: i honestly can't remember my initial timing numbers. No backfiring just a lull, followed by what feels like an engine trying to accelerate (roughly) then a lot of speed. I hopeful get a break in the rain so I can play with it later this week before I start consider saving for some distributor work Then why are you fighting with fueling before getting timing worked out? Timing affects fueling. Fueling does not affect timing. The fact that you don't know what your timing curve is should be raising flags. At least it does to me.

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