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Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? #1201305 03/22/12 10:23 AM 03/22/12 10:23 AM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 205 Chicago,Illinois N nosboy OP enthusiast
nosboy OP enthusiast N Joined: May 2006 Posts: 205 Chicago,Illinois	I've came up with this bright idea and I am wondering if it's ONLY ME that thinks this way... I'm bring my 1973 Challenger to MOPARS AT THE STRIP this April to race with the " BIG BOYS"...My question is,, my engine is jetted to run around 600 foot elevation and i use KLOTZ 113 racing fuel.. Because Las Vegas Motor Speedway is around 3000 foot elevation,, does it MAKE SENSE to use VP 113 OXYGENATED FUEL???? I'm thinking the OXYGENATED fuel will solve the LACK OF OXYGEN at 3000 feet... I will LEAVE the jetting alone BECAUSE VP recommends BIGGER JETTING !!! Did I just STUMBLE onto this OR AM I DREAMING???? Thanks.. Gary Oles nosboy Last edited by nosboy; 03/22/12 10:36 AM.

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: nosboy] #1201306 03/22/12 01:40 PM 03/22/12 01:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,274 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,274 Bend,OR USA	Quote: I've came up with this bright idea and I am wondering if it's ONLY ME that thinks this way... I'm bring my 1973 Challenger to MOPARS AT THE STRIP this April to race with the " BIG BOYS"...My question is,, my engine is jetted to run around 600 foot elevation and i use KLOTZ 113 racing fuel.. Because Las Vegas Motor Speedway is around 3000 foot elevation,, does it MAKE SENSE to use VP 113 OXYGENATED FUEL???? I'm thinking the OXYGENATED fuel will solve the LACK OF OXYGEN at 3000 feet... I will LEAVE the jetting alone BECAUSE VP recommends BIGGER JETTING !!! Did I just STUMBLE onto this OR AM I DREAMING???? Thanks.. Gary Oles nosboy Most oxgenated fuel has alcholol in it, correct? If so how much real compression does your motor have? I buy the local pump gas that does not have Ethanol alcholol in it so I can make more heat in the motor when the spark goes off, I jet for MPH I don't rejet my car going from 2500 Ft to 180 ft above sea level, it picks up around two tenths and 2 to 3 MPH in the 1/8 mile at sea level with no changes If your jetted dead nuts on for the perfect tune you may be a little rich at L.V., I think the track is closer to 2500 Ft than 3000 Ft Google Nellis Air Force Base elevation Its right across the street, maybe 100 to 200 FT lower than the drag strip is Al,Aguire, what is the track elevation there? Last edited by Cab_Burge; 03/22/12 02:31 PM. Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: nosboy] #1201307 03/22/12 02:16 PM 03/22/12 02:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana Dunnuck Racing master
Dunnuck Racing master Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana	I think you are looking at it wrong,when you go up in elevation there is less atmospheric pressure to push air(and fuel)into the engine. Just changing to a fuel that is oxygenated can't make up for the loss of pressure. I know for a fact that running the VP113 requires more than a jet change when switching to it at the same location.You need to retune all the circuits to make up for the volume of lost due to the oxygenates anyway. It is not as hard to get tuned as Q16,but it still is a pain. If you decide to try it,I would make sure you also take the fuel you are used to tuning with,or you may end up not having much fun traveling that far. When I ran the 113 a few years ago,it took a lot of time to get it to run right,but it did pick the car up a solid tenth. Just my thoughts on it. Keith www.dunnuckracing.com

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #1201308 03/22/12 02:47 PM 03/22/12 02:47 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 205 Chicago,Illinois N nosboy OP enthusiast
nosboy OP enthusiast N Joined: May 2006 Posts: 205 Chicago,Illinois	I'm not looking at it like atmospheric pressure,, I'm looking at it as PARTS PER MILLION of OXYGEN !!! Less air = Less oxygen.. less oxygen = more fuel.. By using an oxygenated fuel,, I am reintroducing the LOST OXYGEN to the system.. The FUEL quantity will stay the same because I will NOT rejet... I ALSO don't want to travel with 15 or 20 gallons of fuel in the trailer.. I don't know WHAT THE LAWS are about fuel in containers in your trailer,, so,, I'd RATHER buy the fuel out there in Las Vegas !!!

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: nosboy] #1201309 03/22/12 02:59 PM 03/22/12 02:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas 70AARcuda master
70AARcuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas	the physical elevation of the Strip is right around 2000 ft...the corrected elevation will probably be over 2500 to 3500 depending on the temperature and barometer for MATS. http://airdensityonline.com/results/?trackname=Las%20Vegas%20Motor%20Speedway you can use the link above for reference. Last edited by 70AARcuda; 03/22/12 03:00 PM. Tony 70 AARCuda Vitamin C 71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield) 71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas) 71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: nosboy] #1201310 03/22/12 03:33 PM 03/22/12 03:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana Dunnuck Racing master
Dunnuck Racing master Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana	Quote: I'm not looking at it like atmospheric pressure,, I'm looking at it as PARTS PER MILLION of OXYGEN !!! Less air = Less oxygen.. less oxygen = more fuel.. By using an oxygenated fuel,, I am reintroducing the LOST OXYGEN to the system.. The FUEL quantity will stay the same because I will NOT rejet... That is what I am trying to get at,you can't just pick and choose one way to look at it. You are dealing with both,lost oxygen molecules(parts per million,or however you want to look at it)AND loss of atmospheric pressure. These are the reason correction factors work the way they due,less oxygen,less pressure,air temperature,etc. all affect tuning. You can't just tune using one aspect of it to try and fix things. If you add an oxygenated fuel to help with the lack of oxygen,the other factors are still there and your tune up will still be off. I guess the point I am trying to make is that less pressure pushing the fuel through the carb will affect jetting and adding oxygenated fuel will not be the answer for all the factors involved. Keith www.dunnuckracing.com

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #1201311 03/22/12 04:20 PM 03/22/12 04:20 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 205 Chicago,Illinois N nosboy OP enthusiast
nosboy OP enthusiast N Joined: May 2006 Posts: 205 Chicago,Illinois	I think I understand a litle better.. I thought I could just change fuel and it would help... Considering I run KLOTZ 113,, would it be a good idea, considering that I am running PRO E.T> and it really doesn't matter if the car runs 10.0's instead of 9.70's,, would you think it's a good idea to run VP 114 or VP 110 or that VP 113 Oxygenated fuel???? Like I said,, I really didn't want to rejet if at all possible,, I just want to have fun at the MATS... WHICH FUEL DO I NEED TO ORDER???? Thanks again for your help !!! Gary Oles nosboy

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: nosboy] #1201312 03/22/12 04:33 PM 03/22/12 04:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,274 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,274 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Like I said,, I really didn't want to rejet if at all possible,, I just want to have fun at the MATS... WHICH FUEL DO I NEED TO ORDER???? Thanks again for your help !!! Gary Oles nosboy What is the actual, true mechaincal compressio ratio in your motor and which cylinder heads are you running, iron or aluminum? As far as transporting fuel in a enclosed trailer there are regulations on how much and what labeling that is required for transporting Hazardous materials As far as I'm concerned I'm not letting any law enforcement look in any of my vehicles or homes without a valid search warrent Labels or no labels Besides, a full tank of fuel is a lot safer than a half or almost empty gas tank Less sloshing hence less fumes, less chance for static ignition Hopefully I'll see you there with a full tank of fuel in my car and two full containers of Oregon non ethanol pump premium 91 octane gasoline in the trailer Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: nosboy] #1201313 03/22/12 06:55 PM 03/22/12 06:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana Dunnuck Racing master
Dunnuck Racing master Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana	If you don't want to mess with jetting and VP fuel is what they sell there I would probably get C12 for it. It is a pretty good all around fuel. The oxygenated stuff takes some tuning to get it working well. www.dunnuckracing.com

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1201314 03/22/12 07:24 PM 03/22/12 07:24 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 205 Chicago,Illinois N nosboy OP enthusiast
nosboy OP enthusiast N Joined: May 2006 Posts: 205 Chicago,Illinois	True compression ratio is 13.1 to 1 and the heads are Indy 440-1CNC325. the motor makes 775hp,,,

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: nosboy] #1201315 03/22/12 10:10 PM 03/22/12 10:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	If we could some how meet in the first round Gary, I could solve the fuel dilemma for ya. Fastest 300

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: nosboy] #1201316 03/22/12 11:20 PM 03/22/12 11:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Your allowed to haul 110 gals in the proper drums with ground straps on them and the drums secured (proper drums will have the labeling on them to show what it is)

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: nosboy] #1201317 03/23/12 12:20 AM 03/23/12 12:20 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,274 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,274 Bend,OR USA	Quote: True compression ratio is 13.1 to 1 and the heads are Indy 440-1CNC325. the motor makes 775hp,,, I have ran motors like yours there, I selected the VP C12, 110 octane if I'm remembering correctly. If you want a little more power with no jet changing buy the VP C14+ Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: nosboy] #1201318 03/23/12 01:06 AM 03/23/12 01:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,616 Riverside, Ca G G_bob master
G_bob master G Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,616 Riverside, Ca	Quote: True compression ratio is 13.1 to 1 and the heads are Indy 440-1CNC325. the motor makes 775hp,,, I've got 12.9:1, dynoed at 770 @ sea level with victor max wedge heads. I haven't changed the jets since it was dynoed. I don't even remember what sizes are in it. I'd have to pull the dyno sheets to see. I run sunoco 110 down here at fontana (1100 ft) and same up in vegas. Best of 9.92 at fontana and run mid 10.0's in vegas. Maybe one of these days I'll try tuning for best ET.

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: Crizila] #1201319 03/23/12 12:09 PM 03/23/12 12:09 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 205 Chicago,Illinois N nosboy OP enthusiast
nosboy OP enthusiast N Joined: May 2006 Posts: 205 Chicago,Illinois	Hopefully you can hand me my BUTT in the first round !!! You never know... It will be nice to see you again !!!

Re: Oxygenated fuel question..rejetting for MATS????? [Re: nosboy] #1201320 03/23/12 01:11 PM 03/23/12 01:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	Quote: Hopefully you can hand me my BUTT in the first round !!! You never know... It will be nice to see you again !!! Hey Gary, doubt if I will make it up there this year. Too much other stuff going on right now. Wish you the best though. Staying away from the big red eye is half the battle. Fastest 300

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