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Street machine launch chassis tuning help #1175489
02/09/12 03:53 PM
02/09/12 03:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
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radar Offline OP
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Philadelphia
I have a '72 demon I'm setting up for cruising and stoplight fun. The car sits flat at rest but after a few launches the driver's side stays higher than the passenger side. The twist doesn't seem dramatic since I welded in frame connectors, but it's gotta be lifting the drivers side higher and the 90/10 shocks aren't letting it settle. This is with my 300lb fat butt in the driver's seat too!

I want some strategies to launch straighter and settle flat better. I don't want to spend a bunch of money, I want to tune what I already got. I am not looking to 1.20 60foot with a mild motor and street tires, just want to have fun and learn more about chassis tuning.

Currently:
mild 408 LA 350hp/400tq at the tires
3.09 1st gear
4.11 8.75 rear
275/60-15 bfgs (traction limited I know)
002/003 leafs w kybs and shock extensions, corrected shackle angle
/6 T-bars
90/10 comp front shox (set to 90/10)
Stock front sway bar
Stock torque boxes
2"x3" .125 wall frame connectors welded in

Issues/Ideas/Options I'm already considering:
-My 002/003 springs don't sit higher on one side. I understand they're supposed to do that and if they did maybe it would help?

-I have comp 3ways for the rear, never tried them

-thinking about setting front left shock to 70/30, leaving rt at 90/10

-small stock front sway bar should hurt the launch, but help with flatness/ evenness, right? I leave it hooked up in the street

-Thinking about messing with t-bar preload- ideas?

Sorry for writing Moby Dick here- thanks in advance to anybody willing to help out with any tips or ideas.

radar

Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: radar] #1175490
02/09/12 04:05 PM
02/09/12 04:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,190
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Dude, 1.20 ET 60 fts on BFG 275x60x15 on the street, get real Especiially using a 4 speed Maybe 1.55 60 ft.on a good day BTW, the 002-003 should show preload on the passenger side, thier designed that way, even with your fat butt( ) in the car


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: radar] #1175491
02/09/12 06:24 PM
02/09/12 06:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
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radar Offline OP
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Philadelphia
Quote:


I am not looking to 1.20 60foot with a mild motor and street tires, just want to have fun and learn more about chassis tuning.





Geez! Skim much?!

Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: radar] #1175492
02/10/12 01:35 PM
02/10/12 01:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 642
New Jersey
Craig Offline
mopar
Craig  Offline
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Posts: 642
New Jersey
If those tires are not drag radials, I'd say you aren't going to be able to load the rear suspension enough to gain much there in rear shocks or adjustments. The front lift would be an issue though. I wouldn't set the front shocks different from each other. I would suggest a shock soft in both directions like the Koni SPA-1. I don't think removing the swaybar would do much, while worsening the driveability. There may be benefit in adjusting your torsion bars, a 4-corner scale would be nice but you could just adjust and test.

On the other hand, do the leaf springs still show arch at the backs? There were a lot of bad SS springs made that went soft, I had some that lost their arch in 2 years and threw them away. Bad leafs may be part of the problem even with hard tires.


67 Dart, 426 Hemi, 9.23/145mph, 3400lbs, footbraked, owned since 1982
Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: radar] #1175493
02/10/12 01:45 PM
02/10/12 01:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
The sway bar isnt helping your launch and settling
but your a street car so you may want to keep it...
your never going to get a 1.20 with your set up

Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: Craig] #1175494
02/10/12 02:02 PM
02/10/12 02:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Quote:

If those tires are not drag radials, I'd say you aren't going to be able to load the rear suspension enough to gain much there in rear shocks or adjustments. The front lift would be an issue though. I wouldn't set the front shocks different from each other. I would suggest a shock soft in both directions like the Koni SPA-1. I don't think removing the swaybar would do much, while worsening the driveability. There may be benefit in adjusting your torsion bars, a 4-corner scale would be nice but you could just adjust and test.

On the other hand, do the leaf springs still show arch at the backs? There were a lot of bad SS springs made that went soft, I had some that lost their arch in 2 years and threw them away. Bad leafs may be part of the problem even with hard tires.



Get some loose front shocks and bias ply ET Street or QTP tires for the rear. A bias ply tire is your friend if you want traction on the street, not a drag radial. Unhooking the sway bar will free up the front end, but at the cost of some driveability...not much though in my opinion.

SS springs should sit higher on the passenger's side. If they don't then I'd tend to think you got some bad springs.

Last edited by a9sec70cuda; 02/10/12 02:04 PM.

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Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: radar] #1175495
02/10/12 02:04 PM
02/10/12 02:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
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Quote:

I want some strategies to launch straighter and settle flat better. I don't want to spend a bunch of money, I want to tune what I already got. I am not looking to 1.20 60foot with a mild motor and street tires, just want to have fun and learn more about chassis tuning.





Carry on!

Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: RobX4406] #1175496
02/10/12 06:56 PM
02/10/12 06:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 520
New Zealand
nz383man Offline
mopar
nz383man  Offline
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Posts: 520
New Zealand
Check out this youtube clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNGnu4uPB1s&context=C3c532ebADOEgsToPDskLWMGYk7LxUwuowko-nXgOv

My mates Challenger has a stroked bigblock that has done 12.5 sec on a bad track, he has high gears (2.7?) but it has so much torque it would still 60' fine if he could get traction, he has firm shocks, sway bars & 295? Cobra street radials. My Barracuda has a low comp 383 that has only ever run 14.2 at best (iron intake & exhaust, factory AVS carb etc) I run HP (440-Hemi) rear springs with clamps, adjustable pinion snubber, Summit drag shocks (set on medium) , 3.91 suregrip & 275-15 x 50 Quicktimes, small block T bars, Summit drag shocks set at 90-10, no sway bars front or rear. Both cars are autos & stall about 3K. We were racing on a chip seal runway whick is much the same as our roads in New Zealand (poor traction)

Like yourself I wanted to learn how to get the power I had to the ground before I made it worse by adding power. Now I'm building a stroked & tunnel rammed dual plug Hemi for the Barracuda so I geuss I'm in for a few more traction issues.

Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: radar] #1175497
02/10/12 07:17 PM
02/10/12 07:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
You aren't going to be able to do squat until you upgrade to some sticky tires.


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Coming soon!!!!
Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1175498
02/10/12 11:23 PM
02/10/12 11:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr Offline
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cheapstreetdustr  Offline
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Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
set up the drivers side t-bar ride height with your weight in the drivers seat..
i might even suggest and alignement done the same.
disconnect the front sway bar for dragracing
your rear shock set up ( i hate shock extenders)..
but if you can adjust rear shock settings...give it a looser rebound setting than the compression setting..

next is dialing in the pump shot on the carb..
best of luck...

slicks will make a big difference....


365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
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Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1175499
02/11/12 11:59 AM
02/11/12 11:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,001
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Quote:

You aren't going to be able to do squat until you upgrade to some sticky tires.



That is pretty much true, so working on getting the car to react some before you hit it with all the power will help.
The trick is in hitting the tires hard, and still keeping the car hooked up as the springs return to the spot they will be at under load. The better the shocks and the easier everything moves with out any bind, the better you will be able to do this. You will need a fair amount of suspension travel with poor tires. How much power you can throw at it right away is the other part of the equation. If you can light them up at will in low gear, it is going to be a real struggle.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: gregsdart] #1175500
02/11/12 12:54 PM
02/11/12 12:54 PM
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Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
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radar Offline OP
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I have a set of phoenix 10.5"x28" slicks, they definitely can take a harder hit than the bfg street tires! Traction is not my question, I want strategies for tuning the launch to lift the front end more evenly and settle flatter. Are a full cage and $500 shocks my only options for a flatter launch?!

I went and measured, the leafs are definitely arched and the passenger side is 3/4" higher. Not that noticable. They feel just as stiff as when I got 'em. The alignment is recent. I feel like if my weight was the problem the drivers side would stay lower, not higher? Are the comp 90/10 shocks that much stiffer in extension than spendier ones?

Maybe I asked my question wrong? I used to have 1.08 bars, now with the .83 bars and cheap 3way drag shocks I am getting MUCH more weight transfer. I am pretty good at getting just a little chirp and a little front end reaction even with street tires. With the limited traction and 3.09 1st the fun is in seeing how hard I can hit it without spinning. Maybe there's nothing wrong and I'm just buggin. Lots of kinda fast cars with slicks and a well prepped track only barely lift the drivers tire right? (an example of common chassis twist in mild drag cars, I DO NOT expect to see daylight under any of my tires in the street)

Thanks for any responses, Im not trying to be ungrateful, just please understand I want to learn about tuning for straightness in general not making an ideal setup for the track!

Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: radar] #1175501
02/11/12 03:15 PM
02/11/12 03:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,190
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
try using the rear clamps on the leaf springs to help flatten out the front end twist, move the passenger side rear clamp up close to the rear end and play with the driver siides further back. You will have to try different locations on both sides to get your car to level out, it works BTW, that is with all the springs you can fit clamps on clamped tight on the front half on both sides Being able to slide the clutch instead of dumping it is a aquired art A good pair of small slicks(8x26x15, 10x26x15) will eliminate that need Dead hooking the car may break the 8 3/4 or other parts

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/11/12 03:16 PM.
Re: Street machine launch chassis tuning help [Re: radar] #1175502
02/11/12 10:32 PM
02/11/12 10:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,001
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
I Live Here
gregsdart  Offline
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Posts: 10,001
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Soft torsion bars are going to ride high under load. Another thing is that the harder the car hooks, the more the reaction changes and the more moves the suspension will make. So it is all relative to how hard the tires bite.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky






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