My Budget 440 Build (Learning Experience)
#1171633
02/04/12 11:15 AM
02/04/12 11:15 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
|
Well, hopefully it will be a budget build. I'm completely new to this (engine building) as well as Mopars in general and kind of stumbling my way through with help from members from Moparts as well as others. I've decided to document all the ups and downs and ins n' outs of my first engine build so those of you thinking about doing this may avoid the mistakes I have, and will, make. The goal is to end up with a decent, inexpensive, reliable street motor and slowly rebuild the engine that's in the car now the way I want it. A street beast. Current engine While the current 440 (stock '66 from an imperial or similar) runs ok (albeit very tired) it uses a remarkable amount of oil; 1 qt. per 200 miles. I tried changing the valve seals and intake gaskets, both of which were doing nothing to contain oil in the engine. No difference whatsoever. Must be the rings I figured. So the next plan was to try to rebuild the engine. Or more accurately, have the engine rebuilt on a budget by a local builder. He assured me that I could get mine running like new for around $3000-$3500, but that would be a basically stock 440. The good news is that he had a dyno and he would break it in and dyno it for me for an additional fee. This was music to my ears as hearing all the horror stories about engine break-in terrified me. Then, one day I was looking through Craigslist and found an ad for a "fresh" rebuilt 440 for sale nearby for $1800! Carb to pan! Wow, this is a miracle! When I went to look at it, the owner (for my purposes, I like to refer to him as the perpetrator) assured me that this was a 400hp drop-in-and-go affair. We struck a deal and loaded the beast into the back of my truck. I drove home giggling like a giddy school girl. Nice huh? Since this is an attempted budget build, I will try to keep a running tally. Spent so far $1800.
|
|
|
Re: My Budget 440 Build (Learning Experience)
[Re: bobs66440]
#1171634
02/04/12 11:17 AM
02/04/12 11:17 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
|
The next few days were the beginning of my enlightenment. First, I found no matter how smart you think you are, you are never too old to be fooled by a good salesman. And every cliche along the lines of "If it sounds too good to be true..." came rushing to the surface and smacked me in the face. In other words, with some help from members on Moparts, DC.com and others, I quickly learned that this motor was, at best, a good rebuilt bottom end with heads taken directly from the scrap heap and installed in haste as to feign a run-ready motor. Most of the valve train and hardware was scrap also. I tried calling the perpetrator to ask why he sold me a bill of goods but he did not answer his phone (shocker). As I dug deeper though, it was apparent that the bottom end was put together with care and seemed to be done well. After speaking to some of my more knowledgeable buddys, it seemed that while I may have been duped, I could still sell some parts off the motor and end up with a pretty nice short block with all new parts for less than the machine work alone would have cost on the original engine. And I would still have my running engine in case anything went wrong.
Spent so far (after selling spare parts) $1400.
|
|
|
Re: My Budget 440 Build (Learning Experience)
[Re: bobs66440]
#1171636
02/04/12 11:20 AM
02/04/12 11:20 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
|
I took the engine almost completely apart and checked clearances, bolt torques and basically checked it all over. Everything checked out good. I decided to degree the cam and double check all the specs. I fabricated a piston stop out of aluminum angle and a lifter extension for the dial indicator out of an old brake line and washer. Here's the specs... This is what I came up with: Int open - 1* BTDC = 2* retarded Int close - 41* ABDC = ON SPEC Exh open - 54* BBDC = 2* retarded Exh close - 2* BTDC = ON SPEC Lobe centerline - Int 109* ATDC = ON SPEC Lobe centerline - Exh 120* BTDC = 1* advanced I decided with some trusted advice that it was close enough for my purposes. Though the crank sprocket has provisions for 4 degree advance or retard. I may do some more research to see if advancing the cam will be a benefit.
|
|
|
Re: My Budget 440 Build (Learning Experience)
[Re: bobs66440]
#1171637
02/04/12 11:21 AM
02/04/12 11:21 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
|
The main issue with this engine build, as I would eventually understand it, is that he used flat top pistons on a stock deck height block. The problem is that the pistons are .085" in the hole (below deck) at TDC and therefore can not take advantage of quench (getting the top of the piston to within .040" of the head surface, which creates turbulence (good burn) and allows the use of pump gas in a high compression engine. The other issue is the cam. It's a good low end torque grind, but the spec calls for a minimum of 9.5:1 compression. I gathered all the info regarding combustion chamber volume on different heads, 906/516/452, and ran them through the compression ratio calculator. The 906 heads that were on the motor have 79cc heads, which will get me in the ballpark, but they were in need of a complete rebuild which would cost $600-$700 locally. This was above the price range of new cast iron Aeroheads which are rebuilt castings, but with the bigger valves. So, might as well do that huh? Well, the price on those heads had since gone up and to get them to me would be close to $1000! About the same price as 440 Source aluminum Stealth heads.
|
|
|
Re: My Budget 440 Build (Learning Experience)
[Re: bobs66440]
#1171638
02/04/12 11:23 AM
02/04/12 11:23 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
|
So, after some soul searching, yes, I decided that the Stealth heads would give me the best bang for the buck. I had to get new head bolts also. The bill with shipping was about $1150. A little pricey for a budget build, but I figured that it wasn't too bad considering what I was getting. They are actually pretty nice for the money. Stainless steel valves, Comp valve locks. 130 lb. springs. Perfect for my cam. They are advertised as having 80cc chambers, so that would put me on the money with the compression ratio (9.6:1)I was looking for if I used the .020" steel shim head gaskets I have hanging on my wall. And because the gaskets came with the car, they're free! Life is good! Spent so far - $2250.
|
|
|
Re: My Budget 440 Build (Learning Experience)
[Re: joedust451]
#1171642
02/04/12 12:15 PM
02/04/12 12:15 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
|
Quote:
Good luck with it, I'd tell you what i have into my 406 SBC but you might cry, & thats with a brand new set of Dart iron eagles & roller rockers .
I know, I was a Chevy guy for a long time. I'm quickly finding out that the words "buget" and "Mopar" can rarely be used in the same sentence...or zip code for that matter
|
|
|
Re: My Budget 440 Build (Learning Experience)
[Re: Seth_Jones]
#1171644
02/06/12 09:04 PM
02/06/12 09:04 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,806 Northern NJ
StukaJU87
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,806
Northern NJ
|
Looks like your build is coming along though. Good for you.
You gonna be using those HP exhaust manifolds? Been trying to find a set local for my 440.
Scott
1969 Super Bee, 383/4 speed
|
|
|
Re: My Budget 440 Build (Learning Experience)
[Re: StukaJU87]
#1171646
02/06/12 09:24 PM
02/06/12 09:24 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
|
Quote:
Looks like your build is coming along though. Good for you.
You gonna be using those HP exhaust manifolds? Been trying to find a set local for my 440.
Thanks. I sold those manifolds, but I've seen plenty in the ads here.
|
|
|
Re: My Budget 440 Build (Learning Experience)
[Re: bobs66440]
#1171649
02/07/12 11:48 PM
02/07/12 11:48 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 352 Arizona
69rrgrabber
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 352
Arizona
|
Bob, Can't wait to hear how the motor turns out with those heads and cam. Thinking of doing the same build. Don't feel too bad on getting duped, it has happens to us all at some point! Good luck and keep us posted! Carl
"It takes a Mopar to catch a Mopar!"
1969 Charger R/T 440
1969 Road Runner 383
1970 Cuda 440
|
|
|
Re: My Budget 440 Build (Learning Experience)
[Re: His and Her 69's]
#1171652
02/08/12 07:25 AM
02/08/12 07:25 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
|
Quote:
I would like to see it with the trans and starter installed to see how close it really is!!!! I think you are Fine on your plug clearance to the headers. I would leave them alone. David
I was going to dimple just the one. Maybe I'll just use a boot?
|
|
|
|
|