|
My build and what is wrong or right with it.
#1170189
02/01/12 07:34 PM
02/01/12 07:34 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 290
Loveland Colorado
jake71
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 290
Loveland Colorado
|
Ok, you guys are unbelievably skilled as individuals, and as a group, kind of scary! I am running this in a 70 Challenger that will be almost entirely a street monster. If you care to check it out, it's in members projects under Jake's Challenger/rust. I haven't posted there in a while but I have done a lot of work and I'm getting closer to actually putting her on the road so now I need some help/advice if you wouldn't mind. First off, I don't have a tranny or converter yet so that's open. Second, I have a 3:23 sure grip 8 3/4 and 295/45/18's in the rear. That being said, I'll get on to what I built and look forward to suggestions as to possible gear changes and converter suggestions. Keep in mind this is a car for fun, not commuting! Ok, it is a 70 HP 383 block sonic checked and bored .060". I had the block line honed for 440 source billet steel caps and girdle. It's 10.4:1 compression Indy little ez cnc'd heads Comp solid roller 272 intake 276 exhaust @ .050 gross, .621/.621 108 lobe seperation degreed in. Comp roller rockers. 1000cfm AED HP carb. 6AL2 programmable and pro billet distributer. So, is this a mess or can I have fun with it? Should I advance the cam some for the street or just run a really high stall? Is my carb choice too much for the street? Timing curve suggestions? It's on a test stand and I get the best idle vacuum at about 50 BTDC. Seems pretty high but with the programmable, I could retard right off idle to say 34 and come back in. I don't have near the experience you guys do and would love some input. If need be, you can poke a little fun at me too, I can take it! Thanks in advance, Jake 
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: jake71]
#1170190
02/01/12 07:54 PM
02/01/12 07:54 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
|
thats a pretty big cam thats for sure! going to sound nasty, the gears dont help.. I say a 3500 stall minimal.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#1170191
02/01/12 08:47 PM
02/01/12 08:47 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
|
How tall are those tires? Cam is a tick large...IMO... Converter should be 4500 or more...probably closer to 5k... 4.10-4.56 gear depending on tire height.. Intake? You will need to put the cam in early and a high flashing converter. IMO, the carb is the least of your concern(s). 
Last edited by Von; 02/01/12 08:50 PM.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: jake71]
#1170192
02/01/12 09:27 PM
02/01/12 09:27 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
|
Does it still have a 383 crank? No stroke added to it? If so, you have a lot of cam in a little motor w/ no compression. I'm w/ Von on this one...you're gonna need 5000 stall or more. 4.10 gear minimum. That thing is gonna want to rev! It's gonna sound nasty, but lowend torque will be nonexistent.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#1170193
02/01/12 09:33 PM
02/01/12 09:33 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fishy340
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
|
Quote:
thats a pretty big cam thats for sure! going to sound nasty, the gears dont help.. I say a 3500 stall minimal.
 w bob 3500 stall and min of 3.91 gear + headers of course. best of luck
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#1170194
02/01/12 09:40 PM
02/01/12 09:40 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
|
Quote:
Does it still have a 383 crank? No stroke added to it? If so, you have a lot of cam in a little motor w/ no compression.
I'm w/ Von on this one...you're gonna need 5000 stall or more. 4.10 gear minimum. That thing is gonna want to rev! It's gonna sound nasty, but lowend torque will be nonexistent.
To much cam! Not enough stall or compression and gear to run great. It will be a Dog below 4000 rpm IMO, and then start to show a little potential. It probably wont get happy till around 5800 RPM or so.
As is it wont be a fun street car 
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: jake71]
#1170195
02/01/12 10:54 PM
02/01/12 10:54 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
You say degreed in... what is it installed at... if you installed it at 108 with a 108 LSA(straight up) I would advance the cam to about 99-100 to cut some of the high end off and give it more low end torque... this will help with the torque converter also... MOST street cars dont need the big revs(which that cam wants)... check the P to V clearance to make sure you can do it but at that compression I dont see a problem..... run a 727 with 3500- 3800 stall and a 3.91 gear.... I believe that tire is a 27" tire 
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: jake71]
#1170196
02/01/12 11:13 PM
02/01/12 11:13 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
dvw
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
|
Quote:
Ok, you guys are unbelievably skilled as individuals, and as a group, kind of scary! I am running this in a 70 Challenger that will be almost entirely a street monster. If you care to check it out, it's in members projects under Jake's Challenger/rust. I haven't posted there in a while but I have done a lot of work and I'm getting closer to actually putting her on the road so now I need some help/advice if you wouldn't mind.
First off, I don't have a tranny or converter yet so that's open. Second, I have a 3:23 sure grip 8 3/4 and 295/45/18's in the rear. That being said, I'll get on to what I built and look forward to suggestions as to possible gear changes and converter suggestions. Keep in mind this is a car for fun, not commuting!
Ok, it is a 70 HP 383 block sonic checked and bored .060".
I had the block line honed for 440 source billet steel caps and girdle.
It's 10.4:1 compression
Indy little ez cnc'd heads
Comp solid roller 272 intake 276 exhaust @ .050 gross, .621/.621 108 lobe seperation degreed in.
Comp roller rockers.
1000cfm AED HP carb.
6AL2 programmable and pro billet distributer.
So, is this a mess or can I have fun with it? Should I advance the cam some for the street or just run a really high stall?
Is my carb choice too much for the street?
Timing curve suggestions? It's on a test stand and I get the best idle vacuum at about 50 BTDC. Seems pretty high but with the programmable, I could retard right off idle to say 34 and come back in. I don't have near the experience you guys do and would love some input. If need be, you can poke a little fun at me too, I can take it!
Thanks in advance, Jake
I've followed your build for some time. For the amount of time and money you've got in this thing why a 383 block? Big carb,cam and heads. Little gear and cubes. That spells street mutt. You won't like it at all. Why not use a 440 block? If not I would either switch cams or regrind for FAR LESS duration. Why build a street car that's a dog below 4500 RPM. I made this mistake early in my engine building days. I've also band aided others who've made the same mistake. The time to rethink is now. If I was fixing what you have for the street it would be. Regrind or replace cam to about 250-255@.050,Performer RPM intake,4150 style Holley,4.10,3500-4000 9" converter. That will put a hurt the those 295 tires.
Doug
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: jake71]
#1170198
02/02/12 10:54 AM
02/02/12 10:54 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 635
mississippi
bentwheel43
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 635
mississippi
|
Over camming is not fun,with 3:23gears will not work.Even a 308 street roller .575" is big for that.But I bet it would be faster with the 308R
Last edited by bentwheel43; 02/02/12 10:55 AM.
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#1170199
02/02/12 11:36 AM
02/02/12 11:36 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 290
Loveland Colorado
jake71
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 290
Loveland Colorado
|
Quote:
Does it still have a 383 crank? No stroke added to it? If so, you have a lot of cam in a little motor w/ no compression.
I'm w/ Von on this one...you're gonna need 5000 stall or more. 4.10 gear minimum. That thing is gonna want to rev! It's gonna sound nasty, but lowend torque will be nonexistent.
Sorry guys, forgot to mention it's bored .060 and a 440 souce 496ci stroker kit.
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1170200
02/02/12 11:39 AM
02/02/12 11:39 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 290
Loveland Colorado
jake71
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 290
Loveland Colorado
|
Quote:
You say degreed in... what is it installed at... if
you installed it at 108 with a 108 LSA(straight up)
I would advance the cam to about 99-100 to cut some
of the high end off and give it more low end torque...
this will help with the torque converter also...
MOST street cars dont need the big revs(which that
cam wants)... check the P to V clearance to make sure
you can do it but at that compression I dont see a
problem..... run a 727 with 3500- 3800 stall and a
3.91 gear.... I believe that tire is a 27" tire
Yes, straight up. It actually came in about 1/2 a degree advanced.
Thanks everyone for all the input!
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: jake71]
#1170201
02/02/12 11:42 AM
02/02/12 11:42 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Quote:
Quote:
You say degreed in... what is it installed at... if
you installed it at 108 with a 108 LSA(straight up)
I would advance the cam to about 99-100 to cut some
of the high end off and give it more low end torque...
this will help with the torque converter also...
MOST street cars dont need the big revs(which that
cam wants)... check the P to V clearance to make sure
you can do it but at that compression I dont see a
problem..... run a 727 with 3500- 3800 stall and a
3.91 gear.... I believe that tire is a 27" tire
Yes, straight up. It actually came in about 1/2 a degree advanced.
Thanks everyone for all the input!
Being a street car I would advance the cam and use a
3.91 gear... with the cam advanced it should have
plenty of torque for a street car(enough to blow
the tires off it)
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: Von]
#1170202
02/02/12 11:42 AM
02/02/12 11:42 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 290
Loveland Colorado
jake71
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 290
Loveland Colorado
|
Quote:
How tall are those tires?
Cam is a tick large...IMO...
Converter should be 4500 or more...probably closer to 5k...
4.10-4.56 gear depending on tire height..
Intake?
You will need to put the cam in early and a high flashing converter.
IMO, the carb is the least of your concern(s).
Tires a bit over 28".
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: jake71]
#1170203
02/02/12 11:48 AM
02/02/12 11:48 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
|
[quote 496ci
That changes alot....
I still think with that much duration at .050 (unless your car is solid glass) your gonna need 4500 or more on flash speed...and more gear..
Where exactly is the cam installed now, centerline wise?
Intake??
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: Von]
#1170204
02/02/12 11:53 AM
02/02/12 11:53 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 290
Loveland Colorado
jake71
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 290
Loveland Colorado
|
Quote:
[quote 496ci
That changes alot....
I still think with that much duration at .050 (unless your car is solid glass) your gonna need 4500 or more on flash speed...and more gear..
Where exactly is the cam installed now, centerline wise?
Intake??
The cam is installed about 1/2 a degree advanced from 108 centerline and the intake is an Indy single plane 4150.
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: Dodgem]
#1170206
02/02/12 12:47 PM
02/02/12 12:47 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
|
Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
|
I just put 3.55s in my car and i have a 5300 9" converter. drives great
mines a 493 w/ a little a comp than you have
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: jake71]
#1170207
02/02/12 01:41 PM
02/02/12 01:41 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
|
Quote:
Yes, straight up. It actually came in about 1/2 a degree advanced.
Thanks everyone for all the input!
Whats the elevation in Loveland? If over 4500 ft advanve the cam at least 4 degrees, I would probally shoot for 5,6 or 7 advanced, thin air needs more bottom end As far as the converter call Paul Forte at Turbo Action and ask him to build you a good custom street and strip converter, listen to what he says  I run a Comp Cams sold roller in my 512, it is 260 @.050 intake and 266@.050 exhaust side with 108 LSA in at 106, T/A 8 inch race converter with 5200 RPM actual flash stall, 4.10 gears, ladder bars, 1971 Duster with laddr bars and coil overs, weighs 3450 lb with me in it, best ET so far is 9.99 at 134. MPH on Oregon pump gas with eha mufflers and air cleaner on  I've ran the 315x60x15 M/T ET Street Radials and 13.50x30x15 ET Street bias plys, your tires are around one to tow inches narrower than my 315x60x15. I've ran those tires, 295x65x15 on my car with a smaller motor and it ran low 11s and high tens on those tires with no traction problems at all I also run a Mopar brand 2.77 low gear set in my 727  Especailly at altitude
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: My build and what is wrong or right with it.
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1170208
02/02/12 02:02 PM
02/02/12 02:02 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178
Indy
FlyFish
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178
Indy
|
Cab beat me to it...In Colorado air you are going to need to make some adjustments to get the torque back. For a knowledgeable local help for parts or tuning, talk to Scott McBroom at US Performance. He has a shop in Loveland off of 1st street and Railroad I think (its been a bout 5 years since I was there, so I could be wrong on the address). He helped me out a TON with a small block back in 2001, great guy.
67 Barracuda street car, 408, e85, 1.38 60', 6.44 @105.9 in the 1/8 mile, 10.19 @130.5 in the 1/4...so far....
|
|
|
|
|
