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HV oil pump #1159842 01/18/12 12:13 AM 01/18/12 12:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX CurYellowBird OP mopar
CurYellowBird OP mopar Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX	Do you have to go to a deeper than stock oil pan if planning on going with a high volume oil pump in a 440? What was the capacity of stock pans? Project War Bird: 1971 Plymouth Roadrunner 383 4 speed with air conditioning GY3 Curious yellow All original

Re: HV oil pump [Re: CurYellowBird] #1159843 01/18/12 12:30 AM 01/18/12 12:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 959 Cincinnati,Ohio J jcastle1 super stock
jcastle1 super stock J Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 959 Cincinnati,Ohio	Yes,you should.It will suck the pan dry in most cases. What's the application?

Re: HV oil pump [Re: jcastle1] #1159844 01/18/12 12:37 AM 01/18/12 12:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas 70AARcuda master
70AARcuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas	I been driving my 73 340 Duster around for 6 yrs now with a HV oil pump...never has sucked the pan drive..LOL.. Even been down the drag strip a dozen times or so...did not suck the pan dry...LOL has stock oil pan... Last edited by 70AARcuda; 01/18/12 03:59 AM. Tony 70 AARCuda Vitamin C 71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield) 71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas) 71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)

Re: HV oil pump [Re: CurYellowBird] #1159845 01/18/12 03:03 AM 01/18/12 03:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: Do you have to go to a deeper than stock oil pan if planning on going with a high volume oil pump in a 440? What was the capacity of stock pans? (1) No (2) 4qt I believe. IMO starvation probs are from too little pickup to pan clearance (I like 1/8") & failure to enlarge oil passages and to add bypass/crossover. On the other end excess vol is bypassed to the pump inlet. Unless loose clearances/oil passage mods/high rpm I would use a std "sealed power" brand pump with possibly a high psi spring live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: HV oil pump [Re: jcastle1] #1159846 01/18/12 11:50 AM 01/18/12 11:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio Challenger 1 Too Many Posts
Challenger 1 Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio	Quote: Yes,you should.It will suck the pan dry in most cases. What's the application? Most cases a HV oil pump is not needed and causes more harm than it does good.imo

Re: HV oil pump [Re: Challenger 1] #1159847 01/18/12 12:40 PM 01/18/12 12:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX CurYellowBird OP mopar
CurYellowBird OP mopar Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX	The application is a 440, street driven, rare one or two trips to the strip. Biggest mods the motor will have is a basically a six pack bottom end with 906 heads, aluminum intake, EZ-EFI, and using the stock hi-po manifolds. My old man thought that an HV pump should be put in every performance motor. Put one in my first car a couple years ago, 80' Malibu 350, and the cast crank at the end of the 3 years of use looked like it had been chewed up. Leads me to believe the stock 5 quart oil pan was pretty dry. Project War Bird: 1971 Plymouth Roadrunner 383 4 speed with air conditioning GY3 Curious yellow All original

Re: HV oil pump [Re: CurYellowBird] #1159848 01/18/12 04:15 PM 01/18/12 04:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,079 Niles , Ohio T therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah. T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,079 Niles , Ohio	Ive run them for better than 40 years.Ran with stock and deep pans.Never any problems.I installed a bunch at work also on different vehicles.Never any problems.Rocky Chrysler Firepower

Re: HV oil pump [Re: CurYellowBird] #1159849 01/18/12 04:41 PM 01/18/12 04:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 4,848 Memphis HemiRick master
HemiRick master Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 4,848 Memphis	HV oil pump in an engine not built with loose clearances is just a waste of HP and needleesly heats up the oil. Take care, Rick 68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451

Re: HV oil pump [Re: Challenger 1] #1159850 01/18/12 06:21 PM 01/18/12 06:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA CompSyn pro stock
CompSyn pro stock Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA	Quote: Quote: Yes,you should.It will suck the pan dry in most cases. What's the application? Most cases a HV oil pump is not needed and causes more harm than it does good.imo I think one would have to factor in the overall build, but a HV pump is probably overkill more times than not.

Re: HV oil pump [Re: CompSyn] #1159851 01/18/12 08:24 PM 01/18/12 08:24 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	A HV pump is fine on any build --if one eats enough HP to make you loose a race then then geeezzz!!! Eating HP is baloney! So what it may take one HP to drive that pump at 7k RPM Ok Ok two HP to drive it--that is bull for the average Joe on this board. Your dragging brake job is WAY bigger issue!!!!! Yea--turn 7000 RPM for a Bonneville mile and MAYBE the pan runs dry?? I have never seen evidence--Dan Cook Ran a 65 Dodge Hemi big inch with a stock 6 qt Hemi pan--wheels in the air--crazy 60 ft etc etc --A hundred guys on here would say Oh No that will not work!! IT DID! I have used stock pumps on some wicked BB race engines--I use HV on street engines because most folks think it is a plus--I have never seen an issue from either application--ever! They came about when Herb and others were turning 8K plus in four speed cars and they were looking for answers --the answer was get rid of the ten pound piston and rod combo of the day--so the HV was a band aid--one that has hung around forever--Melling makes em because they sell--not because we need them IMO

Re: HV oil pump [Re: CurYellowBird] #1159852 01/18/12 08:40 PM 01/18/12 08:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,318 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,318 Prospect, PA	A HV pump at 60 psi will not pump any more oil to the bearings than a standard rotor pump at 60 psi. The HV is simply recirculating more oil through the pump through the relief valve. If you are having a problem maintaining adequate oil pressure, then a HV pump will improve that condition. Personally, I wish someone made a .875 or .750 length rotor pump. You dont need HV for your application. If you go with loose enough bearing clearances, modified rocker oiling....etc, your std pan might not hold enough volume. Obviously, oil return plays a role too.

Re: HV oil pump [Re: ] #1159853 01/18/12 08:45 PM 01/18/12 08:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,212 Minnesota peabodyracing top fuel
peabodyracing top fuel Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,212 Minnesota	Some great comments here overall. In my case, going back way too many years, I was a somewhat regular bracket racer running a 426 wedge. I was having problems with spinning rod bearings. The typical scenario was just before running through the lights the engine would start to sound a bit sour, oil pressure would fall some and I'd push the clutch in right away to try and minimize the damage. I couldn't predict when it would happen; sometimes shortly after rebuilding the bottom end, other times it would run for months. I tried everything everyone told me; painted the valley of the block, loosened up on bearing clearances, chamfered oil holes, tufftrided crank, 6 quart pan, high volume pump, high pressure pump and was still seeing signs of bearing problems when I'd check the bottom end come fall. What finally cured the problem for me was putting an oil restrictor in the passages feeding the heads. An old top fuel guy told me to do that and it completely cured my problem. The fix cost me about $8.00. I'm a believer in running the bearings on the loose side and going with the high volume pump and at least one extra quart oil capacity. Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way

Re: HV oil pump [Re: CurYellowBird] #1159854 01/18/12 09:43 PM 01/18/12 09:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA CompSyn pro stock
CompSyn pro stock Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA	There's a gentlemen who I've talked with who's learned a lot of Big Block Mopar tuning tricks from the legendary Tom Hoover. Bob Karakashian is the gentlemen I'm referring to. In talking with Bob, his advice is to simply retain the 3/8" oil pick-up and standard volume oil pump with high pressure spring. He did say to swap out the 402 oil pan and go with a Hemi six-quart unit. I believe he told me this is the combination he uses in his low 12-second A12 Super Bee shifting at 6000-rpm. I'd be inclined to think this would be a good recipe for someone building a similar street/strip rebuild capable of ETs as low as 12 seconds flat. This is probably where a majority of hobbyist fall into including the original poster here. On the other hand, a more race oriented car, lower than 12 second ETs, 7500-rpm shift point, sure thing, look to a more exotic oiling system.

Re: HV oil pump [Re: CompSyn] #1159855 01/18/12 09:50 PM 01/18/12 09:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: There's a gentlemen who I've talked with who's learned a lot of Big Block Mopar tuning tricks from the legendary Tom Hoover. Bob Karakashian is the gentlemen I'm referring to. In talking with Bob, his advice is to simply retain the 3/8" oil pick-up and standard volume oil pump with high pressure spring. He did say to swap out the 402 oil pan and go with a Hemi six-quart unit. I believe he told me this is the combination he uses in his low 12-second A12 Super Bee shifting at 6000-rpm. I'd be inclined to think this would be a good recipe for someone building a similar street/strip rebuild capable of ETs as low as 12 seconds flat. This is probably where a majority of hobbyist fall into including the original poster here. On the other hand, a more race oriented car, lower than 12 second ETs, 7500-rpm shift point, sure thing, look to a more exotic oiling system. Back when I was into big blocks (bachelor days) that was pretty much the conventional wisdom. 6k or less the stock oiling system works pretty good with maybe a bigger pan the only real need for race. Get above 6500 and mods are required, between was a bit of a gray area. I used to build with the 6500+ mods simply because the potential benefit to me outweighed any down side. Today I build LA's and still do the mods because I tend to use the factory oil cooler setup which is a controlled leak. So I like having the higher volume handy. Plus I have been known to run my rides at 4500+ for hours on end out in the W. Texas deserts. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: HV oil pump [Re: CompSyn] #1159856 01/18/12 10:10 PM 01/18/12 10:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,318 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,318 Prospect, PA	I think you can go quit a bit faster than that w/ std pump and hemi pan. What are the 9 and 10 sec FAST guys using?

Re: HV oil pump [Re: BSB67] #1159857 01/18/12 10:36 PM 01/18/12 10:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA CompSyn pro stock
CompSyn pro stock Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA	Quote: I think you can go quit a bit faster than that w/ std pump and hemi pan. What are the 9 and 10 sec FAST guys using? I wouldn't be surprised that the production high performance oiling system is quite a bit more bullet proof than typically given credit for. Not sure what the FAST guys are using, Bod has raced in the PSMCDR class in the past.

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