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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
[Re: JohnRR]
#1159488
01/18/12 03:39 AM
01/18/12 03:39 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,187
USA
big-block-dave
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,187
USA
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Reason for left exhaust manifold configuration...you need to steer the car!
I'm the CARETAKER of Weinstats '69 440 'cuda registry and have 104 of the 360 cars to date. 84 fastbacks/20 coupes. Always looking for new(REAL M-code) '69 440 'cudas to add to the registry so drop me a note if any are found or known. This isn't a publicly released registry. Thanks, Dave
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
[Re: big-block-dave]
#1159489
01/18/12 11:51 AM
01/18/12 11:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
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Quote:
Reason for left exhaust manifold configuration...you need to steer the car!
they could have make something freer flowing and still been able to steer the car . I put a C body HP manifold into my Dart with the column in place , if they had just extended the outlet pipe lower by an inch or 2 and left it at that sideways angle they would have had a better flowing manifold and still cleared everything , it's the turn to make the flange point down that screwed that manifold up .
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
[Re: JohnRR]
#1159490
01/18/12 12:51 PM
01/18/12 12:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,575
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,575
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Your car does not have power steering, John!  I will say one thing, I have never compared B-Body 383's with A-Body 383 in 1967 because I have never cared about 67 B-body's!  I have never referenced anything between a B-Body and an A-Body, but thanks for pointing it out.  What is the CFM rating of a B-Body AFB compared to an A-Body, anyone got that info? Are you 100% sure that the A-Body and B-Body camshaft were the same? 
Last edited by Rhinodart; 01/18/12 12:54 PM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1159492
01/18/12 01:29 PM
01/18/12 01:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
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Quote:
Your car does not have power steering, John! I will say one thing, I have never compared B-Body 383's with A-Body 383 in 1967 because I have never cared about 67 B-body's! I have never referenced anything between a B-Body and an A-Body, but thanks for pointing it out. What is the CFM rating of a B-Body AFB compared to an A-Body, anyone got that info? Are you 100% sure that the A-Body and B-Body camshaft were the same?
Jim I think the C body manifold would clear the power steering box also ??
Anyhow I just looked at NHRA spec for 67, there is no note differentiating the A body 383 form any other.
They show 5 different 383's, 2 rated at 270HP , Chrysler is stand alone from Dodge and Plymouth, with a different cam spec for the Chrysler along with a different piston spec pertaining to dish volume and piston height, these are 2bbl motors. ONE 280HP engine with a .430/.443 lift , which is the same cam as the 270 motor in the Dodge and Plymouth and 2 325HP motors again Chrysler separated from Dodge and Plymouth and using the same .430/.443 cam.
BUT they show 2 different 280HP engines , Dodge being different than Plymouth pertaining to the Carb allowed. The Carb on the Plymouth appears to be the same size as the 325HP engine but a different part number, the Dodge appears to have a smaller carb with secondary size being smaller ????
Specs can be found here, I'm still looking at 68 .
NHRA Blueprint specs
Yes I know that this is not to be taken as factory built Gospel.
The 68 specs are foggy as to Carbs as all the 4bbl engine; 300HP, 330HP, and 335 HP spec the same carb . The 300HP, 330HP and the 2bbl all spec the same cam ... same cam as 67... , 335HP is a different cam.
Last edited by JohnRR; 01/18/12 01:37 PM.
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
[Re: JohnRR]
#1159493
01/18/12 02:00 PM
01/18/12 02:00 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I'm not replying to anyone in particular here, but just for info, here's a pic of my 69 A body 383 exhaust manifolds lying next to a pair of 67 B body 383 exhaust manifolds.
Even understanding that the 67 A body 383 driver's side manifold was at least a bit different than 68-9, I don't see the B body log manfifolds as being 45 horsepower better than the 67 A's. Also, the B body logs will fit a 383 A body, so if they were so much better, why didn't Ma Mopar use them in the A's?
Last edited by 413coronet; 01/18/12 02:07 PM.
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
#1159494
01/18/12 02:01 PM
01/18/12 02:01 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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And here's a shot of the narrow part of the A body 383 driver's side exhaust manifold sitting next to a hi-po 340 driver's side manifold from approximately the same angle.
And don't forget that the driver's side 340 pipe was something like 1-7/8" diameter for the first couple of feet, before feeding into a 2-1/4" pipe, and that even this dinky pipe was squished almost in half to clear the torsion bar. The exhaust pipe on my Cuda 383 is a full 2-1/2" diameter with no squishes.
Last edited by 413coronet; 01/18/12 02:11 PM.
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
#1159495
01/18/12 02:13 PM
01/18/12 02:13 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Here's a pic of the factory 340 driver's side headpipe I copied from the Accurate LTD website.
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
#1159496
01/18/12 02:34 PM
01/18/12 02:34 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Here's another thing. I have a bunch of old road tests of 67 383 Barracudas. The best quarter mile time I remember seeing is 15.2; most were 15.4 or so. That sounds a bit anemic today, I know, but to put in perspective of 1967 (when drag strips were a lot slicker than they are today, and most road testers ran the quarter mile with two aboard and a couple hundred pounds of test equipment), every B body 383 tested in 1967 that I'm aware of ran low to mid 16 second quarters. That's a full second slower than the A body 383's. One would think that if the B bodies actually had 45 more horsepower, the extra power would have offset the B body's extra weight and they would have performed closer to, if not better than, the 383 A bodies.
So here's my theory: The 67 A body 383's didn't lose any horsepower compared to their B body brethren, they just got a more honest horsepower rating. I'll stick to that theory until someone disproves it with dyno testing or whatever.
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1159498
01/18/12 06:53 PM
01/18/12 06:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,679
owt west
Thread Ender1
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owt west
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Quote:
Another insight into the 67 A-Body 383 manifold is that the steering column in a 67 has a longer bearing sleeve plus a spring that goes quite aways down the rod towards the sector, to the exhaust manifold had to have a deeper cast. They redesigned the entire column for 68. I am still of the opinion that the 67 GTS 383 had a smaller cam. I cannot find any documentation of that in any of my books though. Don't forget the wheelwell in the Dart could only hold a small tire compared to the Barracuda, even though the came with the same size tire from the factory.
Yes the 67 383 did have a smaller cam like.390 or .400 lift, i saw in print in a factory brochure.
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1159499
01/18/12 08:46 PM
01/18/12 08:46 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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For what its worth - and realizing dealer brochures are not especially authoritative - but both the 67 and 68 Barracuda dealer brochures show the cam specs for all the available engines and both years show the 383 as having the 256/260 cam with .425/.437 lift. Then the 69 Barracuda brochure has no cam specs for any engine. I really don't understand why no one has documented this by now. I'm too far away from Detroit to do it myself but surely there are some records somewhere or someone who worked on bringing the big block A's to market that would remember. Plenty of documentation for Hemis, Max Wedges, A12's, or even relatively common 383 and 440 4-barrel B bodies. But no one knows anything about the big block A's? Can explain the horsepower ratings of A vs B? Or even answer the very simple question, what cams were used in what years?
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
#1159500
01/19/12 02:11 AM
01/19/12 02:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
For what its worth - and realizing dealer brochures are not especially authoritative - but both the 67 and 68 Barracuda dealer brochures show the cam specs for all the available engines and both years show the 383 as having the 256/260 cam with .425/.437 lift.
Then the 69 Barracuda brochure has no cam specs for any engine.
I really don't understand why no one has documented this by now. I'm too far away from Detroit to do it myself but surely there are some records somewhere or someone who worked on bringing the big block A's to market that would remember. Plenty of documentation for Hemis, Max Wedges, A12's, or even relatively common 383 and 440 4-barrel B bodies. But no one knows anything about the big block A's? Can explain the horsepower ratings of A vs B? Or even answer the very simple question, what cams were used in what years?
I don't have a scanner but in my 1969 Dodge service manual for Charger/coronet/Dart on page 9-96 ... engine specifications ... under Valve Timing is shows 2 different cam specs for 383's one is marked Dart & Superbee and it's specs are the same as 440 with Power Pack, duration is 268/284 , lift is .450/.458
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
#1159502
01/19/12 11:20 AM
01/19/12 11:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,900
Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC
Diego (not Ted)
OP
Too Many Posts
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OP
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 22,900
Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC
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Quote:
I really don't understand why no one has documented this by now. I'm too far away from Detroit to do it myself but surely there are some records somewhere or someone who worked on bringing the big block A's to market that would remember.
The AMA specs would tell the tale, and I know where to get 'em - the AACA library in Hershey. It's actually a project of mine to get copies of those for a few cars, so it's been on my mind to stop by the next time I head to Carlisle.
Certainly you don't need Detroit to find the answer.
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
#1159503
01/20/12 07:51 PM
01/20/12 07:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,316
Prospect, PA
BSB67
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Prospect, PA
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Quote:
8. The 68 A body 383's are identical to the 330 horse B body 383's except for the exhaust manifolds. Both have the same 256/60 cam. Since the A body 383's are rated at 300 horsepower and B's at 330, either the A body exhaust manifolds are 30 horsepower worse or either one engine is overrated or the other is underrated.
9. The 69 A body 383's are identical to the Road Runner/Super Bee 383's except for the exhaust manifolds. Both have the 440 hi-po 268/276 duration, .450/.465 lift cam. Since the 69 A body 383's are rated at 330 horsepower, one would assume that their exhaust manifolds are only five horsepower worse than the Road Runner/Super Bee exhaust manifolds (I can actually believe that).
Problem with that theory is that the 68 and 69 A body 383 exhaust manifolds are the same, so you have to believe the same manifolds are 30 horsepower worse than B body (non hi-po) 383's one year, but only five horsepower worse than the (hi-po) 383's the next. (And of course, 440 A bodies had the same horsepower rating as 440 B bodies, so what's the deal there????)
I too have enjoyed this thread.
I was in the attic looking for skis and grabbed some measurements from the original exhaust pieces from my 68 383 GTS. Head pipe is 2 1/4" expanded to 2 1/2" at the manifold flange. The tail pipe is 1 7/8". I don't know what was on the 69, but maybe this is the reason for the 30 hp rating difference between them.
I see now that JohnRR said that the 69's were small too.
Last edited by BSB67; 01/20/12 08:00 PM.
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
[Re: CUDASCOTT]
#1159505
01/22/12 03:21 AM
01/22/12 03:21 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,187
USA
big-block-dave
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,187
USA
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I found this on a newly re-opened post on here, wondering if this is the answers we're looking for?
As for the 383's hp it goes like this:
In 67 the 383 in the Darts and Cuda's had the small exh valve (1.60) heads and the restictive exh manifolds along with a small 383 cam and the hp was 280.
In 68 the A-body 383 got the 906 heads with the larger (1.74) exh valves and the hp was raised to 300 hp.
In 1969 the A-body 383 got the larger 383 Roadrunner-SuperBee cam and the hp was raised to 330. The Roadrunner 383 was 335 because it had better flowing exh manifolds then the A-body 383.
I'm the CARETAKER of Weinstats '69 440 'cuda registry and have 104 of the 360 cars to date. 84 fastbacks/20 coupes. Always looking for new(REAL M-code) '69 440 'cudas to add to the registry so drop me a note if any are found or known. This isn't a publicly released registry. Thanks, Dave
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
[Re: big-block-dave]
#1159506
01/23/12 12:20 AM
01/23/12 12:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 664
Stuart, FL
Grassosgarage
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 664
Stuart, FL
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Quote:
I found this on a newly re-opened post on here, wondering if this is the answers we're looking for?
As for the 383's hp it goes like this:
In 67 the 383 in the Darts and Cuda's had the small exh valve (1.60) heads and the restictive exh manifolds along with a small 383 cam and the hp was 280.
In 68 the A-body 383 got the 906 heads with the larger (1.74) exh valves and the hp was raised to 300 hp.
In 1969 the A-body 383 got the larger 383 Roadrunner-SuperBee cam and the hp was raised to 330. The Roadrunner 383 was 335 because it had better flowing exh manifolds then the A-body 383.
I have a 67 Dart GTS 383 all #s matching. It was assembled 3/67. The correct date-coded heads on this one are closed chamber 915s with 1.74 exh valve., NOT 516s. I can't speak for the cam. BTW, I'm looking for an original air cleaner for '67 383 if anybody has one!
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Re: Question on 1967-69 A-body 383
[Re: Grassosgarage]
#1159507
01/23/12 12:31 AM
01/23/12 12:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,575
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,575
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Quote:
Quote:
I found this on a newly re-opened post on here, wondering if this is the answers we're looking for?
As for the 383's hp it goes like this:
In 67 the 383 in the Darts and Cuda's had the small exh valve (1.60) heads and the restictive exh manifolds along with a small 383 cam and the hp was 280.
In 68 the A-body 383 got the 906 heads with the larger (1.74) exh valves and the hp was raised to 300 hp.
In 1969 the A-body 383 got the larger 383 Roadrunner-SuperBee cam and the hp was raised to 330. The Roadrunner 383 was 335 because it had better flowing exh manifolds then the A-body 383.
I have a 67 Dart GTS 383 all #s matching. It was assembled 3/67. The correct date-coded heads on this one are closed chamber 915s with 1.74 exh valve., NOT 516s. I can't speak for the cam. BTW, I'm looking for an original air cleaner for '67 383 if anybody has one!
Well I have documented a dozen 67 GTS's and they ALL had 516 heads, so your car must be special. I have personally owned 4 of them and have judged 6 in car shows across the country and none of them had 915 heads. In fact the poster Dart GTS above is an original owner and still has his car that I have judged a couple of times, and he can tell you what heads his has. BTW, there is no such thing as a numbers matching 67 Mopar anything, numbers did not appear on engine and trans until 1968, and not all of them have numbers stamped. I have an original air cleaner that I may consider selling, and I just saw one for sale at the Mopar swap in Florida on Saturday. PM me if you are interested.
Last edited by Rhinodart; 01/23/12 12:32 AM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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