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Cam question #1154583
01/11/12 03:14 AM
01/11/12 03:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 268
ca
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brownout Offline OP
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brownout  Offline OP
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ca
Hey I am new to the forum and hoping for a little advice.

I have a 440 stroked to 493 using 440 source parts.
440 source heads untouched
comp pro magnum 1.5 rockers
holley street dominator with holley 850 dp
hooker 2 in headers with 3.5 inch collectors and 3 inch exhaust
comp cams xe295hl .564/.564 lift 251 intake duration/257 exhaust duration hydraulic flat tappet
comp ratio should be 9.6ish:1
initial timing 18/total 38

The car is a 70 cuda with a 4 speed and 28 inch m/t drag radials
car ran a best of 12.55@111 with 3.23 gears and suregrip
Now I have 3.91s in it and some homemade caltracs with stock springs.
Firts I was wondering if you think I willll see any improvement in et or mph with the gear change?

Next I was looking at the mopar 590 cam but my compression is to low for that.
my dynamic compression ratio comes out to 7.15:1 with the current cam. I am curious do you think it would be worth it to try a set of 1.6 ratio rockers and what would that do to the dcr? That would put the lift at about .600 that would potentially let me run the stock stealth springs which are recommended to .600 max lift.
never been on the dyno so doing different testing at the track.
the car has a stumble when you stab the throttle under 3000 rpm i have some accelerator pump cams i think its getting to much fuel also need to jet it its running a little rich.

Really hoping to learn a thing or two.
Thanks, Cody

Re: Cam question [Re: brownout] #1154584
01/11/12 10:38 AM
01/11/12 10:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,012
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Posts: 10,012
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
I would stay with your current cam till you go to a much deeper gear. You have a four speed, and too much cam and the wrong gear will kill your ET.
If you chose to go with a bigger cam, make it a package change. At least bowl port the heads, cut for more compression, put a solid lifter or roller cam with about 270 at .050 intake duration in it and go with a set of 4.88 gears. (As far as the springs go, I hear the springs that come with those heads may not be the best choice with a bigger cam. Investigate before using. ) Then it will all work together and you should see some real serious ET gains.

Last edited by gregsdart; 01/11/12 10:41 AM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Cam question [Re: brownout] #1154585
01/11/12 11:16 AM
01/11/12 11:16 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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451Mopar  Offline
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Aurora, Colorado
Your combination looks pretty good and the untouched heads look like the cork in the system.
If it's in the budget, I would have the heads cnc ported.

Re: Cam question [Re: 451Mopar] #1154586
01/11/12 12:25 PM
01/11/12 12:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,881
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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Streetwize  Offline
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Posts: 9,881
Weddington, N.C.
I have a buddy that goes High 11's with a stock stroke 440 with mildly worked E-heads and a Six pack in a 3.23 Geared pretty heavy 70 charger WITH THAT VERY SAME CAM.

My Leave the cam for now, work the heads to deck them ~.030 for another .75 or so CR and to flow approx 265 @.400 and 310-315 by ~.550 and you should make an easy 600 hp, your launch will be about the same but the combo will really pick up steam from about 3000 up and your redline will extend 5-600rpm. The SD should be mildly ported as well, Great piece but only flows ~270 out of the box but can easily see over 300 without a ton of work. Should go AT LEAST 11.70's like that....assuming you hook up and you have enough carb. Those minimum flow numbers (fairly easy to achieve) I quoted really make a 500 inch motor happy for anything short of a Max Wedge.

Last edited by Streetwize; 01/11/12 12:29 PM.

WIZE

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Re: Cam question [Re: brownout] #1154587
01/11/12 12:29 PM
01/11/12 12:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
I'd keep the cam and the 3.91's. I think you should pick up some maybe 3-5 tenths. 3.23's are for highways. drop the hammer hard (if your tires can hang) and run thru the gears. I'm running 3.91's and really like them.


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Coming soon!!!!
Re: Cam question [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1154588
01/11/12 01:55 PM
01/11/12 01:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
I would change the gears first and see how the car likes it as it should pick up some. Then I would pull the heads and have them ported and cut for about 10.5 comp as 9.6 is to low for aluminum heads even on pump. I have 10.6 with my aluminum headed 493 and it runs fine on 92 pump. Ron

Re: Cam question [Re: brownout] #1154589
01/12/12 01:19 AM
01/12/12 01:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 268
ca
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brownout Offline OP
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ca
Thanks guys for all the info I really appreciate it.
Streetwize thats pretty impressive for 3.23 gears in a heavy charger. I know the compression is kind of low. The 3.91s definately show some improvement on the street can't wait to see what the car does at the track now. Should get it out there come February. The motor is built for midrange power and the mph is only 111 in the quarter. Also You guys are right about the heads limiting the motor right now it is not in the budget to deck and port them but that will be the first thing to do when I get some money. My best pass I launched at 3700 with no burnout and spun the tires just barely because im scared of breaking the 8 3/4 shifting at 6200 and crossing the line in 3rd (that was with the 3.23s). So basically cam choice is limited based a lot on CR as well as matching parts?

Nice cars by the way mr.yuck and 383man

Thanks again
Cody

Re: Cam question [Re: brownout] #1154590
01/12/12 01:38 AM
01/12/12 01:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Von Offline
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Von  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
What are your 60s?

You have the MPH for 11.90s-12.00s with decent 60s....


72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
Re: Cam question [Re: Von] #1154591
01/12/12 01:53 AM
01/12/12 01:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
S
Sport440 Offline
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Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Quote:

What are your 60s?

You have the MPH for 11.90s-12.00s with decent 60s....





Von is correct! Work on your 60,s before changing the cam out.

Re: Cam question [Re: brownout] #1154592
01/12/12 02:14 AM
01/12/12 02:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 268
ca
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brownout Offline OP
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ca
Yea my 60s are definately killing me. 2.184 is my best so far but The only good pass I had the track messed up and I couldn't get the right timeslip next pass I launched at 4000 with a little more tire spin the 60 foot was 2.190 but I missed second and it bent a pushrod so no time to show. When I get it out to the track I ll try launching around 3700 and see how it reacts with the 3.91s Like I said I would rather not do burnout Im a little worried about the 8 3/4 I did one and launched at 5000 but the 7260/7290 u joint was the weak link. Now I have 1350s all the way around. Also Do you think a little more intial timing would help the stumble I mentioned earlier. maybe 22 intial? I m pretty sure the timing is all in around 3000. Tomorrow or the next day I will try a less agressive accelerator pump cam also.

Thanks again

Cody

Re: Cam question [Re: brownout] #1154593
01/12/12 03:47 AM
01/12/12 03:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,252
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Posts: 43,252
Bend,OR USA
It is not hard to get a carb to stumble from to little fuel or to much Do you still have the 50CC pump in the rear? If so what size squirters and color of cams are you running now? have you treid smaller or larger squirters? I have had to remove the 50CC pump in the rear on both 800 and 850 D.P. to make them pull hard from the starting line on, this was in a automatic car with a high stall converter. I ended up with 31 squirters front and rear with 30 CC in both ends of those carbs IHTHs Remember, the squirters need to take you from the idle or transition circuit to the primary and secondary metering circuits without a bog. I have misadjusted the rear accelerator arm to see if the motor wanted more or less fuel from the rear squirters, I shorten(adjusted) the adjuster screw as short as I could get it and tried that way. My motor liked it so I switch it over to the 30 CC pump and arm in the rear BTW, does your carb have one or two or no power valves now? If yes what vacume rating are you using? Let us know what you find and do to get rid of that bog


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Cam question [Re: Cab_Burge] #1154594
01/12/12 08:34 AM
01/12/12 08:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 915
S.W. PA
6
6PACMAC Offline
super stock
6PACMAC  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 915
S.W. PA
Your gonna bust that rear end . Get a S60 rear in there and launch at 6000 and you'll get some et.

Re: Cam question [Re: brownout] #1154595
01/12/12 10:20 AM
01/12/12 10:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Thanks guys for all the info I really appreciate it.
Streetwize thats pretty impressive for 3.23 gears in a heavy charger. I know the compression is kind of low. The 3.91s definately show some improvement on the street can't wait to see what the car does at the track now. Should get it out there come February. The motor is built for midrange power and the mph is only 111 in the quarter. Also You guys are right about the heads limiting the motor right now it is not in the budget to deck and port them but that will be the first thing to do when I get some money. My best pass I launched at 3700 with no burnout and spun the tires just barely because im scared of breaking the 8 3/4 shifting at 6200 and crossing the line in 3rd (that was with the 3.23s). So basically cam choice is limited based a lot on CR as well as matching parts?

Nice cars by the way mr.yuck and 383man

Thanks again
Cody




Thanks, if you can come oout at 3700 w/o bogging it good. With the 3.91's the rpms won;'t drop as much and you can come out higher....it won't be as hard on the rear either. I'd probably try holding 2nd and 3rd to 6400 once the 3.91's are in.

Re: Cam question [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1154596
01/12/12 11:16 PM
01/12/12 11:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,149
Central NC
gch Offline
master
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,149
Central NC
Won't argue with anything wize has said.
You might consider running less total timing.I would think it would run better with 34-36 total timing.
Consider advancing the cam 2 degrees to build some more cylinder pressure though it may cost you 200 rpm on the top end.
Get ot to hook and then play with jetting for best mph and move on to your shift ponts to see if raising or lowering them(200rpm at a time)it helps any.
Keep some deatiled log books so you know where you have been and how it responded.

Re: Cam question [Re: brownout] #1154597
01/13/12 12:00 AM
01/13/12 12:00 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
R
robnbird Offline
super stock
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
call cam motion give all of you info and he will design a cam for you.

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