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727 with GV o/d or GM 4l60e (4 speed auto)
#1148547
01/02/12 12:48 PM
01/02/12 12:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 669
Michigan, USA
ramman5600
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 669
Michigan, USA
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Pros and cons of each?
Thx.
-C
Last edited by ramman5600; 02/12/12 01:35 AM.
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Re: 727 with GV o/d or Kieselr A41 (4 speed auto)
[Re: ramman5600]
#1148550
01/02/12 11:01 PM
01/02/12 11:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,141
Central NC
gch
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,141
Central NC
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Quote:
I thought there would be several opinions on this. Maybe not enough people have had experiences?
Post it over in Q&A and you will likely get more response.
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Re: 727 with GV o/d or Kieselr A41 (4 speed auto)
[Re: Azzkikrcuda]
#1148552
01/03/12 02:40 AM
01/03/12 02:40 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,427
Dandridge TN
Dabee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,427
Dandridge TN
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Quote:
I like GV, if you already have a built trans and good converter you get to keep them. Everything fits good with a mopar trans. Only time I use the OD is when I hit the Highway, I don't do the spilt shifting gears BS.
I have had mine for two years now and love it. My 511 has tonnes of low end torque so I use the over drive anytime I am above 45 mph. If I need to slow down below 1800 rpm I leave the over drive enjaged and put the trans in second gear until I'm back up to speed. I have a manual reverse valve body.
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Re: 727 with GV o/d or Kieselr A41 (4 speed auto)
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1148556
01/03/12 04:08 PM
01/03/12 04:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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The keisler transmission is basically just a GM small block rwd/overdrive transmission. They rebuild em to take some hp. There are some members on here who've installed the chevy transmissions without buying the keisler kit. Also keep in mind, the overdrive ratio on the gear vendors is basically .8 where the GM transmission and mopar overdrive transmissions are .7 4th gear ratio. Plus those numbers into a calculator like this one and you'll see that makes a sizable difference. http://vexer.com/automotive-tools/speed-rpm-calculator
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Re: 727 with GV o/d or Kieselr A41 (4 speed auto)
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1148557
01/31/12 09:34 PM
01/31/12 09:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 669
Michigan, USA
ramman5600
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 669
Michigan, USA
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Quote:
The keisler transmission is basically just a GM small block rwd/overdrive transmission. They rebuild em to take some hp. There are some members on here who've installed the chevy transmissions without buying the keisler kit.
Also keep in mind, the overdrive ratio on the gear vendors is basically .8 where the GM transmission and mopar overdrive transmissions are .7 4th gear ratio. Plus those numbers into a calculator like this one and you'll see that makes a sizable difference.
http://vexer.com/automotive-tools/speed-rpm-calculator
I am still debating these options and have also learned that the GM trans has a much higher first gear ratio. It is also completely electronic, so it could be run in full auto even though I don't have a kick down option. Is the taller first gear (3.06 vs 2.45 in a 727) a benefit or an issue?
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Re: 727 with GV o/d or Kieselr A41 (4 speed auto)
[Re: ramman5600]
#1148558
01/31/12 11:17 PM
01/31/12 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 669
Michigan, USA
ramman5600
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 669
Michigan, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
The keisler transmission is basically just a GM small block rwd/overdrive transmission. They rebuild em to take some hp. There are some members on here who've installed the chevy transmissions without buying the keisler kit.
Also keep in mind, the overdrive ratio on the gear vendors is basically .8 where the GM transmission and mopar overdrive transmissions are .7 4th gear ratio. Plus those numbers into a calculator like this one and you'll see that makes a sizable difference.
http://vexer.com/automotive-tools/speed-rpm-calculator
I am still debating these options and have also learned that the GM trans has a much higher first gear ratio. It is also completely electronic, so it could be run in full auto even though I don't have a kick down option. Is the taller first gear (3.06 vs 2.45 in a 727) a benefit or an issue?
Any weight savings with either option?
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Re: 727 with GV o/d or Kieselr A41 (4 speed auto)
[Re: ramman5600]
#1148560
02/01/12 11:19 AM
02/01/12 11:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
The keisler transmission is basically just a GM small block rwd/overdrive transmission. They rebuild em to take some hp. There are some members on here who've installed the chevy transmissions without buying the keisler kit.
Also keep in mind, the overdrive ratio on the gear vendors is basically .8 where the GM transmission and mopar overdrive transmissions are .7 4th gear ratio. Plus those numbers into a calculator like this one and you'll see that makes a sizable difference.
http://vexer.com/automotive-tools/speed-rpm-calculator
I am still debating these options and have also learned that the GM trans has a much higher first gear ratio. It is also completely electronic, so it could be run in full auto even though I don't have a kick down option. Is the taller first gear (3.06 vs 2.45 in a 727) a benefit or an issue?
well, a 727 with 4.10's out back has an overall first gear multiplication of 10.05 (2.45*4.1)...which is the same overall multiplication as a 4l60E with a 3.28 rear (10.05/3.06)....IIRC OD is .73, so if you used a 3.23 rear with a 4L60E, first gear acceleration the same as a 4.10 with a 727, but OD cruise would be the same as a 727 with a 2.36 rear end....
for a heavy car, I'd think it's a benefit.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: 727 with GV o/d or Kieselr A41 (4 speed auto)
[Re: patrick]
#1148561
02/01/12 11:47 AM
02/01/12 11:47 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
Crazy68Dart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
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How much power does it need to handle? The 700R4 and 4L60E have the steep first gear. Good for trucks, etc.
Look into a well built 200R4. Overdrive without the huge first gear.
The GV makes sense if you already have everything setup and just want a bolt on deal.
383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60
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Re: 727 with GV o/d or Kieselr A41 (4 speed auto)
[Re: Crazy68Dart]
#1148562
02/01/12 11:50 AM
02/01/12 11:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
bboogieart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
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Just curious, are all G.M. trannies electric. If so how could I make it usable in an older truck? Reason I ask is, there is one laying around here and I would like to use it. Thanks.
I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
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Re: 727 with GV o/d or Kieselr A41 (4 speed auto)
[Re: bboogieart]
#1148563
02/01/12 01:35 PM
02/01/12 01:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Just curious, are all G.M. trannies electric. If so how could I make it usable in an older truck? Reason I ask is, there is one laying around here and I would like to use it. Thanks.
you would make it usable the same way you would if you stuck in in a muscle car , with a separate controller.
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Re: 727 with GV o/d or Kieselr A41 (4 speed auto)
[Re: bboogieart]
#1148564
02/01/12 01:43 PM
02/01/12 01:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
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Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
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Quote:
Just curious, are all G.M. trannies electric. If so how could I make it usable in an older truck? Reason I ask is, there is one laying around here and I would like to use it. Thanks.
Early 700's are not electronic...guys swap them into early GM's pretty often. (my buddy has a '72 C10 with a 700 in it actually..and I had a a similar thing around before as well)
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Re: 727 with GV o/d or Kieselr A41 (4 speed auto)
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1148565
02/01/12 02:50 PM
02/01/12 02:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 669
Michigan, USA
ramman5600
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 669
Michigan, USA
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Quote:
You still need to have a kickdown for the transmission. With the 4L60E it is probably a throttle position sensor because the ecu needs some way of knowing how hard you're pressing the gas.
As for the low first gear, well a heavier car and/or a numerically lower rear end gear ratio like a 3.55 or lower will benefit the most from the steeper first gear of the GM trans.
I would use the TPS sensor on the 6.1 L for the "kick-down" on the GM trans or a manual Valve body on the 727 and eliminate the kick-down altogether. If I am running 3.73 gears will that first ratio be too steep? It would act like a 727 with a 4.65 geared rear.
-C
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Re: 727 with GV o/d or Kieselr A41 (4 speed auto)
[Re: Crazy68Dart]
#1148566
02/01/12 02:52 PM
02/01/12 02:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 669
Michigan, USA
ramman5600
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 669
Michigan, USA
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Quote:
How much power does it need to handle? The 700R4 and 4L60E have the steep first gear. Good for trucks, etc.
Look into a well built 200R4. Overdrive without the huge first gear.
The GV makes sense if you already have everything setup and just want a bolt on deal.
It needs to handle 550-600Hp in the future. If I already had the 727 I would definitely go the GV route, but I need and entire trans setup. Total cost is slightly in favor of the keisler setup.
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