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Re: Pure Stock - Oh the humiliation.........
[Re: dvw]
#1143614
12/30/11 01:24 PM
12/30/11 01:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
WO23Coronet
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
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Quote:
My buddy had a original 64 Hemi Belvedere H/T. You are correct it did have Carter carbs. Last I heard the car was in Washington state, It was an automatic, red with a red interior. Supposedly one of six.
Doug
So just to get this straight you could get a 64 Hemi car that was a street car (NOT a RO or WO car) and registerable (if thats a real word)? Is this the same case with the 65 cars? I always thought they were race only.
In my opinion, if you could plate it, it should be allowed. I can see both arguements for the 68 SS cars, yeah they weren't supposed to be registered, but I'm sure alot of them were, there's a CarCraft article from about 2 years ago where a guy was driving one on the street with one of there editors (they took it for ice cream and made a kid cry with it). As a matter of fact, didn't one go on the PowerTour or Drag Week? But, they did make more of them that the ZL-1 or L88 cars, and probably the COPO cars, which are nothing more than factory race cars, LIKE THE 68SS cars. So I can see both sides.
If the reason they don't want the 64 HEMI cars in Pure Stock is because they have headers (which is BS cause they are actually a cast manifold, although a really good one) BOO HOO. ZL1's have aluminum blocks, L89 have aluminum heads and Holly carbs. Hell, Studebaker Larks have superchargers for heavens sake. It seemed to me that the organizations that put on these type of events, FAST and Pure Stock, were unbiased towards one brand or another, but it seems that the old Mopar bias is creeping in.
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Re: Pure Stock - Oh the humiliation.........
[Re: dannysbee]
#1143616
12/30/11 02:01 PM
12/30/11 02:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
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Quote:
Never have seen any 65's but 64 there were Plymouths and Dodges built with cross ram Hemi's that were not RO or WO cars. Mervin Hughes had Dodge with a 4 speed. There were probably not more than 20 or so built but that is beside the point. They were built on the production line and sold just as any Max Wedge would have been. The steel front end Max Wedge cars are allowed. I guess the GM boys feel justified in their decision as they don't let the Z-11 63 427 cars run or the ZL1 corvette (2 built) run. 
This was exactly what his car was. Street production 64 Hemi.
Doug
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Re: Pure Stock - Oh the humiliation.........
[Re: dannysbee]
#1143617
12/30/11 02:13 PM
12/30/11 02:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
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The reason you do not see the 64/65/68 high compresion hemis in those classes is because they were not designated street cars. They were perpose built super stock cars. Yes some states you could get them titled back in the day. Today it is easier to plate them ( eg Steve Atwels ss car in drag week).Production numbers are higher than the copo cars but the copo cars where not super stock purpose cars. They came with titles and warrenty. When you look at how these cars were equiped back then they all had some great stuff to make the hp-weight very good and very competetive. So really it boils down to engine builders to maximise that combo. So looking at that it should be very competive between gm copo cars,chrysler hemi cars, ford 427hi rise cars. So I say let the racing begin and may the best engine builders show their stuff. Jake
Last edited by JAKE68; 12/30/11 02:15 PM.
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
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Re: Pure Stock - Oh the humiliation.........
[Re: JAKE68]
#1143618
12/30/11 02:19 PM
12/30/11 02:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
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Also looking at the car that Doug is talking about I tried to do clone like that and was told I could not compete in the pure stock for a couple of reasons, one being they could not get the exact cam specs that the low compresion cars had, the cast,steel headers, and the production numbers, as they only made 11 hardtop cars. jake
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
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Re: Pure Stock - Oh the humiliation.........
[Re: JAKE68]
#1143619
12/30/11 02:37 PM
12/30/11 02:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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I did not know the production #. I know I have seen several over the years. I would venture to say that all of those cars were titled and driven. They would not be any more of a ringer than a L88 Corvette with 12.5 to 1 compression and L88 specs:
.540/.560 lift
334/364 duration.
Or a ZL1 Camaro with 12.5 compression and ZL-1 specs:
.560/.600 lift
347/359 duration
Last edited by dannysbee; 12/30/11 02:49 PM.
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: Pure Stock - Oh the humiliation.........
[Re: jamesc]
#1143620
12/30/11 02:42 PM
12/30/11 02:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
They have smallblock heads that will outflow a B1 with ease.
GM has hoards of better options for parts than mopar but i think that one's a stretch 
Our SBF flowed 410 on the intake side.
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Re: Pure Stock - Oh the humiliation.........
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1143629
12/30/11 10:19 PM
12/30/11 10:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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No good reason why those cars cannot run Pure stock in my opinion.
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: Pure Stock - Oh the humiliation.........
[Re: Moparmal]
#1143631
12/30/11 11:33 PM
12/30/11 11:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 722
Hampstead, MD.
Troublemaker427
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 722
Hampstead, MD.
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T-bolts did run Super Stock in 1964 on 7" tires. They ran AFX when on 10" tires. There were 100 Thunderbolts built. Gas Ronda won the 1964 NHRA "World Top Stock Eliminator" title while running SS. In my opinion a as built Thunderbolt along with an as built '68 Hemi Cuda & Dart should be legal for Pure Stock along with the '64-'65 Race Hemi cars. Also I'm pretty sure as delivered from Dearborn Steel Tubing the Thunderbolts were faster then the Hurst built '68 Cudas & Darts if you want to compare apples to apples. From what I read the "stock" Hemi cars had some issues. Once they were blue printed and set up by the racers the Hemi cars may have the edge but it still was very close. As delivered in late '63 a "stock" Thunderbolt would run 12.20's @ 120+. By the end of '64 some of the good running T-bolts were in the high 10's on 10" tires. No matter what I'd like to see them all run Pure Stock. Quote:
Thank you Joel - thats the answer I was looking for . 
In fact, I had an argument with some clown on one of the Vids about the SS Darts - somehow they reckon the SS Dart isn't a "mass produced" car!
So I say "what? did the stork lay them? " Or were they assembled in a Factory?
....Next thing...he's claiming the T Bolt was faster than the SS Darts...... What an IDIOT!! 
The T Bolt ran AFX, the SS Darts were SS!
Typical Chev owner. 
Jody Aberts
1966 Fairlane 427
Troublemaker2
AA/NSS
1964 Galaxie 500XL
390-4spd.
1966 F-100
390-C6
1967 Plymouth VIP
383-TF
2003 Roadking
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Re: Pure Stock - Oh the humiliation.........
[Re: Troublemaker427]
#1143632
12/30/11 11:40 PM
12/30/11 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
WO23Coronet
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
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Quote:
T-bolts did run Super Stock in 1964 on 7" tires. They ran AFX when on 10" tires. There were 100 Thunderbolts built. Gas Ronda won the 1964 NHRA "World Top Stock Eliminator" title while running SS.
In my opinion a as built Thunderbolt along with an as built '68 Hemi Cuda & Dart should be legal for Pure Stock along with the '64-'65 Race Hemi cars.
Also I'm pretty sure as delivered from Dearborn Steel Tubing the Thunderbolts were faster then the Hurst built '68 Cudas & Darts if you want to compare apples to apples. From what I read the "stock" Hemi cars had some issues. Once they were blue printed and set up by the racers the Hemi cars may have the edge but it still was very close.
As delivered in late '63 a "stock" Thunderbolt would run 12.20's @ 120+. By the end of '64 some of the good running T-bolts were in the high 10's on 10" tires.
No matter what I'd like to see them all run Pure Stock.
Quote:
Thank you Joel - thats the answer I was looking for .
In fact, I had an argument with some clown on one of the Vids about the SS Darts - somehow they reckon the SS Dart isn't a "mass produced" car!
So I say "what? did the stork lay them? " Or were they assembled in a Factory?
....Next thing...he's claiming the T Bolt was faster than the SS Darts...... What an IDIOT!!
The T Bolt ran AFX, the SS Darts were SS!
Typical Chev owner.
I'll give you that one, where you compare the 64 T-Bolts with the 68 SS cars, neither were built in house, and neither should be allowed, BUT you can't throw the 64 HEMI'S in with them as they were assembled on a factory line
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Re: Pure Stock - Oh the humiliation.........
[Re: WO23Coronet]
#1143633
12/30/11 11:53 PM
12/30/11 11:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 722
Hampstead, MD.
Troublemaker427
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 722
Hampstead, MD.
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Ok, if coming down an assembly line is the criteria used to determine what is allowed to run then I agree. But, I would be more conserned about production numbers. They built 100 T-bolts and I believe only 69 ZL-1 Camaros. I'm not sure of the production numbers for the '64 Race Hemi but I would imagine less then 100? How about L-88 Corvettes?
If built on an assembly line is the criteria then a '63 & '64 lightweight Galaxie should be legal. They were built on the line. Are they, I'm not sure?
I'd still like to see "pure stock" versions of these "factory race cars" compete even if they had their own class. AFX/Pure Stock ??? Make them run on a spec 7" cheater slick. What do you all think?
Jody Aberts
1966 Fairlane 427
Troublemaker2
AA/NSS
1964 Galaxie 500XL
390-4spd.
1966 F-100
390-C6
1967 Plymouth VIP
383-TF
2003 Roadking
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Ron
