MSD-5 Install Qustions
#1127520
12/04/11 03:52 PM
12/04/11 03:52 PM
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YO7_A66
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I just installed my MSD Street Fire ignition which replaced my Chrysler "style" setup. I ran into a couple of minor issues that I need help with. A) When I connected the "+" battery cable to the battery, I got a few sparks which I don't recall from before. See B. Note: When I was done, I put a test light on the negative battery post and the other end on the un-mounted positive cable and my test light did not light. B)The instructions say to wire the HEAVY red wire to the positive side of the starter solenoid which I did. This is before the ammeter in the circuit, is this correct? C) The engine did not want to fire right up but once it did, then it idled at the high idle speed of 1400rpms. My ammeter was solid in the "+" side which is normal and my battery volt gauge showed solid 14ish and my volt gauge for the 12v feed to the MSD showed solid 13.5 or so ("Crank" and "Run" wires). But as soon as I dropped the idle off of high idle to base idle, the ammeter started flickering and both voltage gauges started flickering 12-14 volts real fast. D) At my base idle rpm, my initial timing is now showing 54 degrees instead of my previous 24 degrees. My Craftsman dial back showed a solid line on the dampner but I gained 30 degrees of initial timing. Is this normal when switching from a Chrysler style ignition to a MSD unit? If so, then I will reset my initial timing. Thanks
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions
[Re: topside]
#1127523
12/04/11 04:33 PM
12/04/11 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443 Indiana
YO7_A66
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This box comes with the V8 mode standard.
""A disconnected + cable has no power, = no reading."" Correct. It appears that there are no leaks when the "+" cable is removed from the battery.
""Did you disconnect the ballast resistor and make a jumper wire for the charging circuit there?" The ballast was already removed (previous 12v setup, no ballast). BUT, you may have found my voltage problem. Before, I had the two brown wires connected to the blue (run) and the brown (crank). I removed the two brown wires (at ballast hookup) and they are not hooked up to anything right now. I just have the blue (run) and the brown (crank) hooked up to the red 12v switched wire for the MSD unit (with my voltage gauge spliced into the red wire too. I REALLY want to use my volt gauge inside of my car to watch the 12v feed to the MSD unit.) Note: the LED on the side of the MSD unit showed solid red during the idle rpms when I was having the voltage issue. So it is getting 9+ volts. Are the two brown wires my issue? I was not sure what to do with them so I left them disconnected.
I have MANY grounds all over the engine compartment. I may need to pickup a standard timing light and timing tape. Thanks for the replies
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1127525
12/05/11 10:45 AM
12/05/11 10:45 AM
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Posts: 5,443 Indiana
YO7_A66
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I called my local NAPA store to find a standard timing light and their selection has been minimized to one unit that is a digital unit. Is anyone using a digital unit on the MSD? If so, then I will buy it and give it a shot. If not, then I will check with one of the other stores plus find timing tape. EDIT: I just read that digital units may not work either. I have found a standard timing light and timing tape. Thanks
Last edited by YO7_A66; 12/05/11 01:06 PM.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1127527
12/05/11 10:28 PM
12/05/11 10:28 PM
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YO7_A66
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Three of my local parts stores can not get the standard timing light and/or the correct timing tape, so I went to Summit to review their timing lights and I found one that is a dial back that is "Multi-Spark compatible" for $60. I like this unit because I don't want to mess with the tape and I like my current dial back but it won't read correctly. What do you think about the dial back that is MS compatible? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EQU-3555/
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1127530
12/06/11 01:17 PM
12/06/11 01:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Three of my local parts stores can not get the standard timing light and/or the correct timing tape, so I went to Summit to review their timing lights and I found one that is a dial back that is "Multi-Spark compatible" for $60. I like this unit because I don't want to mess with the tape and I like my current dial back but it won't read correctly. What do you think about the dial back that is MS compatible? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EQU-3555/
I tried that light... my ignition(7al) didnt like it at all... the best light I have is the Flaming River and I have a FEW lights http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLA-FR1001/
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Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1127531
12/06/11 03:04 PM
12/06/11 03:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443 Indiana
YO7_A66
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68: That is a great price for a dial back with MSD capability!!
Mr P: I called Equus tech support and they said that this light is compatible with MSD because they do their in-house testing on MSD systems.
Now you have me worried because I already ordered it. I will find out this weekend. Thanks for the replies.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1127532
12/15/11 12:04 AM
12/15/11 12:04 AM
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YO7_A66
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I used my new dial back timing light and I also got the 54 degrees initial timing, so my old dial back and my new dial back both show the same timing. Can this be that the MSD box added 30 degrees of timing? My idle rpms went up by about 250rpms too and as I rev up the rpms in neutral the exhaust sounds like crapt.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1127533
12/15/11 08:47 AM
12/15/11 08:47 AM
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Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5
471Magnum
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54 degrees is about what you'd get with mechanical (25) and vacuum (18) advance kicked in on top of initial.
Make sure the vacuum is disconnected and plugged. Make sure your rpm isn't so high that the mechanical advance is coming in.
Or, wind it up to 2500-3000 rpm and set the advance at ~34 (with the vacuum disconnected).
-Jim
I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman. He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.
Currently Mopar-less
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Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions
[Re: 471Magnum]
#1127534
12/15/11 10:15 AM
12/15/11 10:15 AM
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YO7_A66
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""54 degrees is about what you'd get with mechanical (25) and vacuum (18) advance kicked in on top of initial.""
I would agree but my current distributor is a non vacuum advance unit that was previously setup at 24 degrees initial and 34 total. I ran it this way for several years and then as soon as I hook up this new control box, I now have 54 degrees at the same idle rpms. I don't mind just resetting the initial timing but I would like to know first if the cause is from the MSD box or from something else.
I have a vacuum advance distributor coming but I would like to get this one setup correctly before I add in another new part. Thank you,
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1127535
12/16/11 12:16 PM
12/16/11 12:16 PM
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YO7_A66
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I wrote the MSD support tech about the additional 30 degrees of initial timing and they are stumped. They thought that my distributor wiring is backwards but that checks out. They also thought that my two distributor wires were touching one of the coil wires or one of my spark plug wires. I re-routed the pickup wires and insulated them inside of a rubber hose to make sure that they are not getting any interference, but I won't be able to start the car back up until late this weekend. The tech never commented on the two timing lights that I am using. http://www.msdignition.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17478 Any other thoughts on the extra timing at idle? Thanks
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1127537
12/18/11 02:27 PM
12/18/11 02:27 PM
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YO7_A66
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Mike, I just moved the MSD ground wire from the motor to the main negative battery cable. I also isolated the two distributor wires with rubber fuel line (3/16" wall) and I double checked my wiring and it matched the diagram. But the next time I start the car and if I have the same trouble, I will swap those two wires to see what happens. Thanks a bunch.
Last edited by YO7_A66; 12/18/11 02:32 PM.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1127538
12/18/11 07:16 PM
12/18/11 07:16 PM
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I moved the MSD ground wire to the negative battery cable. I swapped the wires at the distributor pickup. I started the car (fires up immediately even in cold weather) and let it warm up for a few minutes. Then I let the engine come off of high idle to idle rpms and both of my voltage guages are fluctuating between 13-15 volts real fast and my ammeter is fluctuating from just left of straight up to pegged out on the positive side. My initial timing still shows 52-54 degrees at idle and 60 degrees at hight idle. When I bring the rpms up to 1600, my ammeter and both voltage gauges become SMOOTH and the ammeter stops fluctuating and stands still straight up. But, the engine is running real rough like the timing is way up there. I am now wondering if my timing really is off and I just need to lower the initial back down to 24 and see how it runs. The electrical guage problem seems weird that all three gauges are fine at 1600rpms but they all three start to fluctuate as I start to lower the rpms down. Then when I get it down to the idle rpms, all three gauges are fluctuating pretty bad. The only wires that I have hooked up to the MSD for 12v is the BLUE/RUN and the single BROWN/CRANK and my voltage gauge. Before I made this swap, I had the above wires and the two TWIN BROWN wires plus the LIGHT BLUE/YELLOW tracer hooked up with the FBO ecu and I had no problems with voltage at idle. I attached a photo of my ballast hookup for reference. When I pulled my ballast and added a 12v coil, I just took all of these wires and connected them together. I am wondering if one of these wires still needs to be hooked up.
Only plan: reset initial timing to 24 degrees and see how it runs. But the fluctuating electrical gauges at idle I am stumped. Any help is highly appreciated.
Last edited by YO7_A66; 12/18/11 07:28 PM.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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